New Clown Going Downhill

[shimps1]

I have had a tank running for about 5 weeks now. Dry rock, live sand, and a piece of seed live rock rubble from a local tank. To set the timeline for infectious disease transfer, that rock was added December 9th, no fish in the tank until January 8th. The local tank did have a clownfish but it appeared very healthy, no issues.

Last Thursday (1/8), I added a pair of captive bred Ocellaris clowns. One of them unfortunately didn't make it 24 hours, I think the shipping stress was too much for it.

On Friday, I replaced the dead one with a second clown, also captive bred, from a LFS. At the store, it was active and healthy.

This morning, it is breathing rapidly, and appears lethargic. Tank parameters are acceptable, no ammonia or nitrite, nitrate under 10ish ppm. SG 1.026.

Visibly, the clown looks fine. No excess mucus like Brooklynella, or any fin damage. But it's clearly going downhill.

The original clown from past Thursday is behaving normally, showing no signs of issues.

Any advice on how to help the new clown? I am going to perform a freshwater dip now to try to help in case it's brook or flukes, but I doubt both of those, since the fish was fine in the store, and another clown is fine in my tank.

 

[Jamie9]

Can you show us a photo or video of the surface agitation on your tank? Are the fish getting enough oxygen?

 

[shimps1]

Can you show us a photo or video of the surface agitation on your tank? Are the fish getting enough oxygen?

Attached. This was prior to adding fish but surface movement is the same.

 

[shimps1]

Quick update, after a 5 min freshwater dip, the clown does not appear to be doing any better. Not worse, either, but still breathing rapidly.

To clarify, the other clown is not breathing quickly or heavily at all, I don't think it is an oxygenation issue.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Quick update, after a 5 min freshwater dip, the clown does not appear to be doing any better. Not worse, either, but still breathing rapidly.

To clarify, the other clown is not breathing quickly or heavily at all, I don't think it is an oxygenation issue.

FW dips are easy to do, but offer no real benefit since the fish is going back to the same tank.

There are two likely possibilities here: 1) the new clown came in with a gill disease and the other clown just hasn’t been exposed long enough to develop symptoms. 2) there is a common syndrome in new clowns that causes rapid breathing not eating and stringy feces. It is most likely caused by coccidea. It isn’t considered treatable. Definitive diagnosis requires a veterinarian (ugh), but I see a lot of suspect cases here. Luckily, it does not seem highly contagious.

 

[shimps1]

Can you show us a photo or video of the surface agitation on your tank? Are the fish getting enough oxygen?

Here's a video of right now.

FW dips are easy to do, but offer no real benefit since the fish is going back to the same tank.

There are two likely possibilities here: 1) the new clown came in with a gill disease and the other clown just hasn’t been exposed long enough to develop symptoms. 2) there is a common syndrome in new clowns that causes rapid breathing not eating and stringy feces. It is most likely caused by coccidea. It isn’t considered treatable. Definitive diagnosis requires a veterinarian (ugh), but I see a lot of suspect cases here. Luckily, it does not seem highly contagious.

Thanks... That would be very weird though.

The first deceased clown came from an online order. It's partner seems to be doing ok. Curious, looking for food, eating pods on the glass, etc.

This second clown, which came from a local fish store, and was healthy there, has started breathing rapidly and behaving sickly only in the past 24 hours or so. Would be weird that two clowns from different sources had the same issue appear.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I thought the first clown that died you thought was from shipping stress?

 

[shimps1]

I thought the first clown that died you thought was from shipping stress?

Yes, I do think that. This one that is now struggling came from a local store and looked great while there, so I don't understand why it would take a turn for a worse so quickly.

 

[sgdnycct]

Do you have a way of separating the clowns? Could be bullying. Clowns can get very aggressive but sometimes won’t show torn fins or anything that points to it.

I’m thinking of this since the one clown has been fine against two others that are struggling or didn’t make it.

 

[shimps1]

Do you have a way of separating the clowns? Could be bullying. Clowns can get very aggressive but sometimes won’t show torn fins or anything that points to it.

I’m thinking of this since the one clown has been fine against two others that are struggling or didn’t make it.

I do not have a way to separate them. The smaller of the two (the one left from the original pair) is already doing the submissive vibration thing to the new clown, so I doubt it is bullying. It would make sense though, I just don't see any behavior that looks like it.

Oddly enough, I did have a new pump ordered, that arrived just now. I've set it up for a bit more surface agitation and better random flow in the tank. I am not sure it is possible to get more surface agitation with what I have now.

It was the larger of the two clowns that died the first time, and it is the larger of the two that is struggling now. Low oxygen may make sense, assuming the bigger clowns need more oxygen. The snails have also been congregating at the top of the glass and rocks. Hopefully I see some improvement after adding this pump.

 

[sgdnycct]

If it’s an O2 issue I’d think both clowns would be feeling it. Following the O2 path can you lower the level of your sump? This would create a water fall action. As the water overflows will help break the surface tension.

 

[shimps1]

If it’s an O2 issue I’d think both clowns would be feeling it. Following the O2 path can you lower the level of your sump? This would create a water fall action. As the water overflows will help break the surface tension.

Not really. This little AIO design is pretty tight, I have it about as low as it'll go back there.

 

[shimps1]

The clown seems to be better this morning. Will keep an eye on it still, but it was out, active, and eating. Still seemed to be breathing a bit quickly, but nothing labored.

 

[sgdnycct]

The clown seems to be better this morning. Will keep an eye on it still, but it was out, active, and eating. Still seemed to be breathing a bit quickly, but nothing labored.

That’s great. Glad it’s doing better.

 

[shimps1]

Update on this situation. Clown was fine until this morning. I went to look at the tank and it was breathing extremely rapidly. I did an emergency fw dip again, since that worked last time, but it was too far gone, and it has since passed. No visible injuries at all, I still don't think it's a bullying situation.


I'm stumped as to the cause. It was eating, active, and normal just yesterday. The other clown is still completely normal, no symptoms or anything showing. No idea what would be going on.

 

[sgdnycct]

I’m sorry for your loss.

I don’t know what could cause this type of situation other than bullying. Hopefully someone else can chime in so this can get resolved before your next addition.

 

[shimps1]

I’m sorry for your loss.

I don’t know what could cause this type of situation other than bullying. Hopefully someone else can chime in so this can get resolved before your next addition.

I added a new clown on Sunday, after the replacement one passed away. It is twice the size of the original clown.

Today, it is already breathing heavily and has clamped fins.

The other clown is still completely fine.

There are no signs of injury to the larger (sickly) clown, and no observed bullying at all.

At this point I will not be adding any further clowns, and the one remaining one will live another as some I Am Legend immunity show.

Completely stumped.

 

[Gone Reefin’]

Just going to throw this out. Are you testing the salinity of your LFS water and comparing it to yours? If the delta is anything over a couple units, you may have acclimation shock. Would not explain the first loss, but possibly the next 2.

 

[shimps1]

Just going to throw this out. Are you testing the salinity of your LFS water and comparing it to yours? If the delta is anything over a couple units, you may have acclimation shock. Would not explain the first loss, but possibly the next 2.

I have not. I guess that is possible, but I did a 45 minute drip acclimation for both clowns. I will call the store this week and ask, that may be possible. I am running a standard 1.025 in my tank. They also had BTAs in the tank with the clowns at the LFS, so I would assume it's a similar salinity to a normal tank.

Would that be something that causes a pretty quick decline like this? I feel like that would be even faster than what I'm witnessing. The 2nd one lasted 8 days, with a fw dip helping on day 4. This one is only on day 3 and already struggling.

 

[Gone Reefin’]

Ok, less likely if BTA’s were in there. Also, 8 days would be a bit long.