New Cycle - Seneye vs API

Dan_P

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Hello All,

Have just started to cycle a new DD ReefPro 900. Am using Fritzzyme Fishless food and Turbo Start and am 2 days in. I have dosed twice with Fishless food on the back of the seneye readings which are as follows:
1631726249815.png

But the API result seems to be showing a different story.
1631726302650.png

I`ve seen a few posts on here about the difference between the Seneye NH3+ reading and the TAM as measured by the API Kit but nothing that really explains whether the Seneye is measuring correctly at that level and if so, the relationship between the 0.041 value and the 2(ish) ppm showing up on the API - which is what I would expect. Also, am I correct in assuming that by dosin with bacteria and fishless fuel that I would expect to the see nitrate and nitrite levels shown on day 2 of the cycle?

Hope that makes sense, I have only cycled a small tank previously and did that with live rock and sand which cycled so fast I missed it!

Thanks,

G
I have observed Bio-Spira consume about 1 ppm total ammonia by day 2 but nitrite to nitrate conversion lags behind.
 
Reef Chasers Aquaculture

brandon429

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I like that because it sets a fair turnover rate per day for known active bacteria, in another day or two we have yet another angle of test benchmarking based on that (at one ppm per day, shouldn’t take long to close the two one hundredths gap- by the time my current movie is over lol)

additionally, yours is seneye data relayed to factor alongside this one. Fritz would not be expected to be slower that’s for sure


We shouldn’t add any more ammonia here, knowing a basic expected consumption rate sets an expected downtrend, can’t wait to see if the final result on seneye here matches the display/known control. The bacteria here are well fed already.
 

LRT

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I like that because it sets a fair turnover rate per day for known active bacteria, in another day or two we have yet another angle of test benchmarking based on that. additionally, yours is seneye data relayed to factor alongside this one. Fritz would not be expected to be slower that’s for sure


We shouldn’t add any more ammonia here, knowing a basic expected consumption rate sets an expected downtrend, can’t wait to see if the final result on seneye here matches the display/known control. The bacteria here are well fed already.
Agreed. No more ammonia.
Id love to see a few cuc in there, maybe a fish or hardy coral with a little food to see if ammonia bumps up a tiny bit. I never seen more than .006 on mine and never for more than a cpl hours during first week.
I like this one because its been done with bottle bac and dry rock. Id love to see whats happens in comparison to my own records using cured ocean rock.
 

LRT

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Did you have to trim the slide/machine to make it read that level on your display
To date i have never trimmed ammonia. I didnt care i was only looking for initial record showing seneye recorded ammonia and waiting to see .001 again. Mine tracks at .001 been stuck there since second week after cycle.
Never recorded ammonia above .001 in old system either( that im aware of)
 
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you should charge for all this benchmarking, by PayPal lol = a hassle I know.
But so good for science

if your display drops below the threshold of the matured nano, I bet it’s because your new system doesn’t have respiring bioload locked into place to keep adding ammonia.
 
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Hello All - very sorry not updated on this. Been a busy couple of weeks but have been monitoring daily so here`s the detail... First up, as suggested I added no further ammonia. I did a partial water change and added a couple of Chromis. All good and no spike in amonia on the Seneye. API test continuted to show high amonia, nitrite and nitrate. The seney progress can be seen below...
1632931808813.png


The two spike seen are from the first 2 doses of fishless fuel. As of today its reading 0.013 thats 11 days from the 20% water change (drop symbol) and fish addition I added a couple of clowns and moved some corals over from my nano a week later.

Today the API reads as follows so still showing some amonia, nitrite and nitrate although all have dropped over the 2 week period

1632932020734.png


The tank is looking good and all inhabitants happy - sand bed starting to get a bit grungy so will add some CUC at the weekend.
1632932333602.png
 
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Did you have to trim the slide/machine to make it read that level on your display
I didnt trim the slide at all - when I replace it will be interesting to see where the new slide sits in relation to the original. Will report on that in a week or so.
 
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thank you so much without exaggeration this is the best seneye, cycling and API thread Ive ever seen. youve added the dimension of sensitive reef animals who we can watch for ruly or unruly behavior.

this is currently the best cycling thread I know of. any updates you provide over the coming months are valued and will be referenced for core procedural updates in cycling, tank design etc.

Im glad for once the seneye isn't trimmed, you're demo'ing what just about any aquarist can expect to occur in the home. with, or without the seneye verification part, that's key.

what your tank does, and by when, is what other's tanks will do given the same surface area approximations and submersion timing--even if they lack seneye verification setups. this thread makes so many important proofs about cycling I just cannot understate it.
 
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thank you so much without exaggeration this is the best seneye, cycling and API thread Ive ever seen. youve added the dimension of sensitive reef animals who we can watch for ruly or unruly behavior.

this is currently the best cycling thread I know of. any updates you provide over the coming months are valued and will be referenced for core procedural updates in cycling, tank design etc.

Im glad for once the seneye isn't trimmed, you're demo'ing what just about any aquarist can expect to occur in the home. with, or without the seneye verification part, that's key.
Thank you :) more than happy to share my experiences, both good and bad. I`m sure some folks would say that I have been impatient and added fish too soon but I have the nano on hand to be able to move them over if they show any signs of distress and at the moment there are none whatsover. The corals all look super happy too and all came out fully within 24 hours of being moved.

pH is currently reading 7.85 on the Seneye and over a 24hr period seems to go between that and 7.9. I think a lager water change will help get this back up and once I see it stable I may nudge it up by dosing but will wait and see..
 
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I have observed Bio-Spira consume about 1 ppm total ammonia by day 2 but nitrite to nitrate conversion lags behind.
I would say that this is exactly whats going on given the API readings. Clearly (based on the Seneye NH3 results) the API is something of a blunt instument but the comparison between the mature nano and the cycling tank suggests that there is some validity to the results.
 

brandon429

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The reason I advocate when you added fish 100% is because it directly samples, using today's best ammonia trackers, how the lion's share of all current reef cycles are proceeding. since your surface area inclusion directly matches all currently known cycles, and you share core # of days underwater total with most cycling approaches, the timing for your tank also applies to theirs, that's the new info these patterns relay in my opinion.


there isn't actual wide variation in cycles, there's shocking compliance shared :)

writers of cycling charts decades ago/onto something especially that ammonia line drop date. and it doesnt come back up...

for once we dont have to wrestle TAN conversions out of something, even after TAN that's an unacceptable API read above. this explains over two million search returns from google when I type in searches about stalled cycles.

your reef as it sits daily with animals in place, opened up that well, looks like every cyclers top outcome goal. the water is good, not bad, and updated cycling science says we can trust that fine picture above for crucial cycling parameters.
 
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Very interesting what the levels of API ammonia are showing in comparison to seneye. I wonder how far off the api nitrite kit is now.
Asking myself the same question but dont forget the comparison to the mature nano where it showed zero. It must be of some use!
 

brandon429

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Am I reading the results correctly:

your seneye in the known cycled new display pretty much matches to the hundredths, not a shabby level of accuracy, what the fully known and cycled nano runs at

to have the timeline of this aquarium above on the date you posted, tied into what the readings from an absolutely known cycled tank carry for all measurements in place, is astounding timing for all this to come together.


the seneye is only mildly off calibration even with no trim, its close enough for horse shoes I'm sure. I'd leave it as is and continue using it as a nice measurement benchmark for other systems you may want to track in time.
 
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Am I reading the results correctly:

your seneye in the known cycled new display pretty much matches to the hundredths, not a shabby level of accuracy, what the fully known and cycled nano runs at

to have the timeline of this aquarium above on the date you posted, tied into what the readings from an absolutely known cycled tank carry for all measurements in place, is astounding timing for all this to come together.


the seneye is only mildly off calibration even with no trim, its close enough for horse shoes I'm sure. I'd leave it as is and continue using it as a nice measurement benchmark for other systems you may want to track in time.
The seneye is actually reading lower than the nano reading we took a couple of weeks ago. It is on 0.013 in the new tank and was at 0.024 in the nano. Interestingly the API result in the nano was totally yellow though. Am wondering if I didnt leave the Seneye in there long enough for it to stabilise and read correctly. Might try again tomorrow and report back.
 

brandon429

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thats ok, landing in the hundredths vs the thousands is the exact proof we needed for your original completion date for this tank.


it tracked the basic same levels before bioload and now during, amazing to be able to see this in motion. it even lines up better per accuracy because the nano is packed to the hilt, less dilution it should be slightly higher.

*the fact its not orders higher speaks massively to the rule of surface area presentation in reef cycling and in basic reef biofiltration this is a hidden standout clue in how surface area scales and behaves in reef tanks**


all displays trend to the same relative nh3 control, and naturally hold there even if you scale up or down the model size. or the dilution, or the bioloading, this is the nh3 constant that swirling warmed water arrives at when it comes across reef rocks...that's all our displays.


my little vase with no fish for 17 years packed in corals run what your nano runs, yey they're totally different pico reef setups. you have fish, I don't, we run the same nh3 turnover as the guy with the seventeen thousand gallon reef I'll bet.

fascinating. old cycling science would not make this correlation whatsoever--right above that API as stand alone shows total stall, all life about to die

:)

when your original date of completion showed on the seneye, well before we proofed it with these various comparisons, that was the right date the meter never was wrong, you quick cycled this reef legitimately.
 
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LRT

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The seneye is actually reading lower than the nano reading we took a couple of weeks ago. It is on 0.013 in the new tank and was at 0.024 in the nano. Interestingly the API result in the nano was totally yellow though. Am wondering if I didnt leave the Seneye in there long enough for it to stabilise and read correctly. Might try again tomorrow and report back.
Would probably be a good idea for you to do that. Not sure of exact lag time but the software does lag. I usually unplug mine for 20 seconds and plug it back in after I move mine.
That being said it can take longer for temp to re acclimate to new temps moving from system to system so you may experience slide re acclimation on all params.
 
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