New here and likely in over my head

[gt44ever]

One other note from tonight. I picked up some microbe-lift Artemis a couple night ago to try to give the Lion in particular some help while i sort my otger issues. Bought it mostly because it was all I could get in decently lsrge amounts at petco (couldnt get to lfs). I'm 2 doses in and he seems to be moving more now than he had been for the past couple weeks so bit of seemingly good news.
Blue line grouper is also doing poorly. Couldnt get a good look at him the past few days as he was staying hidden away

 

[GrizFyrFyter]

Got the undergravel running again for the time being. Came across a spare powerhead I forgot I had that might be higher flowing than the old one and did a fairly aggressive gravel vac of about a third of the fuge zone. Will try to get another third done once things clear back up a bit. Trying not to pull too much crud out of there at once so i hopefully don't inadvertently release a bunch that'll get through and make things worse (just filtering out detritus and returning the water for the moment)

I'm going to plan on pulling out the undergravel setup and go in a different dorection. Good options for bio filter media to compensate for removing all that gravel? I'm not sure the couple sections of bio balls and the limited stuff in the main are going to cut it

I use brightwell Aquatics bricks.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/xport-bio-biological-filtration-dimpled-brick-brightwell.html

 

[gt44ever]

I use brightwell Aquatics bricks.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/xport-bio-biological-filtration-dimpled-brick-brightwell.html

I have an NO3 brick i was hoping would help my nitrates so the BIO is one that intrigues me with its supposed super high capacity. It's in about the lowest flow area I could manage (basically next to the undergravel powerhead and tight to the bulkhead. I was just going to let the gravel there compact and clog to reduce flow through the brick).
Any tips for locating the brick (or plate version) to get the most out of it? Directions mention a kinda wet dry setup or a "medium flow" that should develop anoxic zones for nitrate removal as was the the aerobic for nitrification. For that "medium flow" option could I slip a couple plates (space permitting... I know bricks wont fit here) against the sump-in bulkhead next to my skimmer pump (bottom left in the pic)?

Or would I be better off trying to set up some sort of mechanical to bio filter cascade off the lines coming from the tank for the wet-dry setup? (also I aplogize id what I'm saying make no sense... Sometimes I ramble)
Or should i go for something else and utilize some of the fige area I would be clearing out when the undergravel comes out?

 

[GrizFyrFyter]

I don't use them for nitrate removal, I'm not convinced they actually process any noticeable amount of nitrates. I use them to help keep ammonia and nitrates at zero. I have too many fish and feed too much.

I depend on my refugium and water changes for lowering nitrates.

 

[gt44ever]

I don't use them for nitrate removal, I'm not convinced they actually process any noticeable amount of nitrates. I use them to help keep ammonia and nitrates at zero. I have too many fish and feed too much.

I depend on my refugium and water changes for lowering nitrates.

Fair enough. Cant say I've noticed any real changes from the brick I have though from what I understand about getting an anoxic environment going for nitrate removal I may still have too much flow.
From your experience how many would I need and how should i plan to configure them for processinf ammonia and nitrites? I know the flame 1000g capacity but it seems numbers get exaggerated a bit in the aquarium supply industry at times so some real use insight would be great

 

[Mark]

Got the undergravel running again for the time being. Came across a spare powerhead I forgot I had that might be higher flowing than the old one and did a fairly aggressive gravel vac of about a third of the fuge zone. Will try to get another third done once things clear back up a bit. Trying not to pull too much crud out of there at once so i hopefully don't inadvertently release a bunch that'll get through and make things worse (just filtering out detritus and returning the water for the moment)

I'm going to plan on pulling out the undergravel setup and go in a different dorection. Good options for bio filter media to compensate for removing all that gravel? I'm not sure the couple sections of bio balls and the limited stuff in the main are going to cut it

Was the undergravel and powerhead in the refugium? If so, the dead powerhead may have contributed to your chaeto issues. If an ATS is out of the budget, then I was going to suggest running a powerhead in the fuge(to increase flow locally without increasing sump throughput) and upgrading the lights(the amazon linked one in the thread looks cheap and effective). So perhaps getting the undergravel powerhead replaced may get the flow where it's needed. You may still need to turkey baste the cyano off the chaeto daily while you work on getting the balance shifted.

 

[Captain Quint]

@gt44ever if I may take the liberty to talk about the BioBalls and W/C's and possible future inhabitants.

It would be great if you could replace the BioBalls with some good LR in the sump.

As far as the 45g Brute can, I honestly do not feel it is enough of a W/C if, in fact, if that was what the previous owner did every 2 to 3 months. On my system of 375g TWV I ran for years I had to do 120g W/C monthly to keep on top of maintaining a healthy tank and critters.

I did turn over a 16-inch DoctorFish to the Fort Fisher Aquarium here in NC as it was actually too big for my 8' 300g and glad I did so. Raised it from the size of a half dollar and it will live many more years in the 14,000g FT which homes it and has for 4 years now. Just a little food for thought.

Truly though it comes down to whether you wish to keep as is or changes with things up a bit to you and the Misses regarding the livestock.

Here's my baby I go see at the aquarium a couple of times a year. This was when she was only about a foot long in my 300g.

Please keep the updates and thoughts coming.

 

[gt44ever]

Ok, catching up now:

Was the undergravel and powerhead in the refugium? If so, the dead powerhead may have contributed to your chaeto issues. If an ATS is out of the budget, then I was going to suggest running a powerhead in the fuge(to increase flow locally without increasing sump throughput) and upgrading the lights(the amazon linked one in the thread looks cheap and effective). So perhaps getting the undergravel powerhead replaced may get the flow where it's needed. You may still need to turkey baste the cyano off the chaeto daily while you work on getting the balance shifted.

Yep, undergravel is in the fuge. Chaeto issues have been ongoing for a long time now. I've tried restocking several times but it never really takes off.
I might try adding another powerhead to get some more flow and maybe get the wad of chaeto to actually stay under the lights too. Right now, it's wandering and keeps moving away from the light under the glass center brace, which is really dirty and hard to get light to.

Tried to turkey baster method with very poor and frustrating results. I've mostly been brushing of thick cyano with my hand and then just creating waves by hand to knock looser stuff off. Usually have to change out the mechanical filter right after as it'll clog full of cyano and other stuff that was bound up in the chaeto and choke the return flow.

I may try some light upgrades, but I'd generally prefer to go LED if possible to keep things energy efficient. Also pucks or something small because the metal halide hood (1 150w bulb was used) that was on it before really made maintenance a nightmare.

@gt44ever if I may take the liberty to talk about the BioBalls and W/C's and possible future inhabitants.

It would be great if you could replace the BioBalls with some good LR in the sump.

As far as the 45g Brute can, I honestly do not feel it is enough of a W/C if, in fact, if that was what the previous owner did every 2 to 3 months. On my system of 375g TWV I ran for years I had to do 120g W/C monthly to keep on top of maintaining a healthy tank and critters.

I did turn over a 16-inch DoctorFish to the Fort Fisher Aquarium here in NC as it was actually too big for my 8' 300g and glad I did so. Raised it from the size of a half dollar and it will live many more years in the 14,000g FT which homes it and has for 4 years now. Just a little food for thought.

Truly though it comes down to whether you wish to keep as is or changes with things up a bit to you and the Misses regarding the livestock.

Here's my baby I go see at the aquarium a couple of times a year. This was when she was only about a foot long in my 300g.

Please keep the updates and thoughts coming.

I've been contemplating LR for a while, but wasn't sure if it was the best route. From my understanding, I would definitely have to supplement with other, higher available surface area substrate (like BIO bricks) as I would need a TON of LR to use that as my main bio filter. I've seen something like a pound per gallon floated about. Might use some where the undergravel is if I choose to remove it (I'm leaning that way) as well as incorporated into the new aquascaping once I get that planned out though and then add additional bio filter media to supplement and increase filter capacity to where I would need it.

Too small of water changes definitely seems to be the consensus. I'm looking into either buying or building an automated system to help me actually keep up with those moving forward. And it would likely help compensate for slow RO production, which is really my current bottleneck for size of a single change. Frequency is more of a finding the time to do it issue.

As for the large residents, from what I've seen at public aquariums, the sharks we have seem to be perfectly happy in not overly large tanks. Probably the biggest issue would be lack of bottom area, which may lead to us eventually finding a new home for them, though we do enjoy them. I'd say some of this will come up while we talk about redoing the aquascaping and hash out a long term plan for what we want in the tank as that will hopefully be set and forget for a very long time.

 

[Captain Quint]

Ok, catching up now:


Yep, undergravel is in the fuge. Chaeto issues have been ongoing for a long time now. I've tried restocking several times but it never really takes off.
I might try adding another powerhead to get some more flow and maybe get the wad of chaeto to actually stay under the lights too. Right now, it's wandering and keeps moving away from the light under the glass center brace, which is really dirty and hard to get light to.

Tried to turkey baster method with very poor and frustrating results. I've mostly been brushing of thick cyano with my hand and then just creating waves by hand to knock looser stuff off. Usually have to change out the mechanical filter right after as it'll clog full of cyano and other stuff that was bound up in the chaeto and choke the return flow.

I may try some light upgrades, but I'd generally prefer to go LED if possible to keep things energy efficient. Also pucks or something small because the metal halide hood (1 150w bulb was used) that was on it before really made maintenance a nightmare.

I've been contemplating LR for a while, but wasn't sure if it was the best route. From my understanding, I would definitely have to supplement with other, higher available surface area substrate (like BIO bricks) as I would need a TON of LR to use that as my main bio filter. I've seen something like a pound per gallon floated about. Might use some where the undergravel is if I choose to remove it (I'm leaning that way) as well as incorporated into the new aquascaping once I get that planned out though and then add additional bio filter media to supplement and increase filter capacity to where I would need it.

Too small of water changes definitely seems to be the consensus. I'm looking into either buying or building an automated system to help me actually keep up with those moving forward. And it would likely help compensate for slow RO production, which is really my current bottleneck for size of a single change. Frequency is more of a finding the time to do it issue.

As for the large residents, from what I've seen at public aquariums, the sharks we have seem to be perfectly happy in not overly large tanks. Probably the biggest issue would be lack of bottom area, which may lead to us eventually finding a new home for them, though we do enjoy them. I'd say some of this will come up while we talk about redoing the aquascaping and hash out a long term plan for what we want in the tank as that will hopefully be set and forget for a very long time.

You have a well laid out plan IMHO.

The old thought of pound per gallon isn't considered nowadays to necessarily be the case as it once was, but loading the sump where one possible would do a nice job. The system doesn't care where it is located as long as it it there. I dept much more LR in the sump than DT and it was nice and healthy.

Every time I acquired a sump with BioBalls, I took them out and replaced with LR and LR rubble before even running the system. I would imagine the ones you have now would be pretty mucked up which can lead to the nitrate being high thingy.

If you wanted to clean them they could be removed and placed in a container with bleach for a short time, rinsed well, allowed to dry and start again, but if mine and I were keeping the BioBalls I would not remove all at once to be cleaned.

Let us know your thoughts, please.

 

[gt44ever]

You have a well laid out plan IMHO.

The old thought of pound per gallon isn't considered nowadays to necessarily be the case as it once was, but loading the sump where one possible would do a nice job. The system doesn't care where it is located as long as it it there. I dept much more LR in the sump than DT and it was nice and healthy.

Every time I acquired a sump with BioBalls, I took them out and replaced with LR and LR rubble before even running the system. I would imagine the ones you have now would be pretty mucked up which can lead to the nitrate being high thingy.

If you wanted to clean them they could be removed and placed in a container with bleach for a short time, rinsed well, allowed to dry and start again, but if mine and I were keeping the BioBalls I would not remove all at once to be cleaned.

Let us know your thoughts, please.

Not gonna lie, that first line feels really good to hear

There are 2 zones of bio balls: 1. In the main tank overflow box and 2. in the sump.
I'll definitely plan on removing the sump balls and replacing those as those are easy to get to. Just have to make sure I can get to my skimmer pump if needed since it's sitting under them. Maybe I'll make a little box or something in the corner so it has clear access since I won't be able to dig down through rock or other various hard substrate like I can the bio balls. I'd likely go for a mix of LR and LR rubble with some "LR substitutes" to increase available surface area. Might also go the route of get a little LR and some "dead" rock to seed to try to keep costs down since I'll likely end up with quite a bit of it after I pull the undergravel out. I'll likely see what the LFS has in terms of LR first and go from there.
Would it be worth putting some live sand down where the undergravel currently sits as well?

The ones in the overflow box might get cleaned out when I do the aquascaping. It's a bit of a pain to get in there but I'd be clearing everything away as much as possible to drop in the new rock/sand/artificial structure/etc so might be doable then.

Based on what I've learned thus far, I'd prolly skip cleaning them and just get rid of them.

 

[Captain Quint]

........................................
Based on what I've learned thus far, I'd prolly skip cleaning them and just get rid of them.

Even better.

 

[GrizFyrFyter]

Your best bet with the fuge is to take all the "gravel" out. Clean glass/acrylic bottom and put one or two small pumps (like a majijett 1200), instead of a powerhead, in so they blow across the bottom so the chaeto is constantly tumbling in the chamber. This will make sure all of the chaeto gets exposed to light as it tumbles and the flow will keep cyano and other stuff from growing on the chaeto.

 

[gt44ever]

Your best bet with the fuge is to take all the "gravel" out. Clean glass/acrylic bottom and put one or two small pumps (like a majijett 1200), instead of a powerhead, in so they blow across the bottom so the chaeto is constantly tumbling in the chamber. This will make sure all of the chaeto gets exposed to light as it tumbles and the flow will keep cyano and other stuff from growing on the chaeto.

I like that idea. Wouldn't have thought of it, but then I guess that's why I'm here. That's the same style of pump (actually same model) I have that I've been calling a powerhead (technically labeled as "pump and powerhead" hence my confusion). I'll likely look to add a 2nd and try to direct it so it stays under the lights a bit better as well.

 

[GrizFyrFyter]

I like that idea. Wouldn't have thought of it, but then I guess that's why I'm here. That's the same style of pump (actually same model) I have that I've been calling a powerhead (technically labeled as "pump and powerhead" hence my confusion). I'll likely look to add a 2nd and try to direct it so it stays under the lights a bit better as well.

They have attachments so they can be used as a powerhead, they just aren't very efficient compared to the ones designed to be powerheads.

 

[gt44ever]

One quick general question about books for reference:
I have a kindle credit that expires in the next few days so I'm looking at a few options for an offline general reference. I'm considering the following:
Your New Saltwater Aquarium: A Step By Step Guide to Creating and...
by Laurren Schmoyer
(previously mentioned author)
(also has a new reef book but I would assume this one would be more applicable)

Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies
by Gregory Skomal PhD
(ya it's for dummies, but I kinda feel that way at times and at least the guy writing it should be qualified)

Saltwater Fish and Reef Tanks: From Beginner to Expert
by Zechariah Blanchard
(high-ish rated and somewhat recent 2014 publish)

The New Saltwater Aquarium Guide: How to Care for and Keep Marine Fish and Corals
by Albert B. Ulrich III
(the one amazon recommends. Also well reviewed and a 2014 publish)

The only Fenner books I could find easily were specific to groups of fish/corals/etc.
other mentioned authors I didn't find easily in the Kindle store
any other specific recommendations would also be welcome. Just figured I'd ask if there's one reference that's better than another.

 

[gt44ever]

So I think my immediate (like going to start planning/purchasing over the next few days) is:

• new lights for the fuge. Likely something like the earlier recommendation (I went temporarily blind/dumb and totally missed that it was a powerful LED setup) or something I can pickup locally if I like the output on them. Those could go in tonight if I find something local or as soon as they arrive
• 2nd maxijet 1200 to increase flow in the fuge and balance it out so the chaeto stops running away from the light
• Look into aquiring some LR (plus LR alternatives) to replace the bioballs in the sump. I'll see what the LFS has for LR and go from there. Also figure out a divider so I can still get to the skimmer pump
• Water changes, water changes, water changes... also try to flesh out my auto water change plan so I don't have to keep doing these manually

Looking ahead a bit:

• Once the bioballs are replaced and the LR has settled in, pull out the undergravel. Trying to make sure I don't compromise my bio filter since I imagine a lot of its working in there.
• Decide how I'm going to use the fuge space once the undergravel is out (figure this out while the LR is settling in). I may consider splitting it between more LR and a fuge space. If the macro grows big enough, it'll be impossible to keep it tumbling across the entire zone as it stands
• More water changes (I'm probably going to need more salt)
• decide if I'm going to convert my current skimmer to recirculate or build the second tower that way so I can keep the current one going while I build, glue, seal, check for leaks, seal again, more leaks, more sealing... you get the idea
• I may try to do a DIY ATS. There's a lovely DIY article on here that looks doable. Just have to figure out how big I need it to be (the designed size might work well or I might need to stretch it out a bit), where to put it and how to get water to it since the lines coming from the DT are a wee bit short to go anywhere but straight into the sump. Seems this would be a more space efficient way to manage my nutrients than the standard fuge, though I may run both depending on how things go

 

[GrizFyrFyter]

You can build a fairly large ATS for less than $100 it just won't be pretty. Storage bin with a bulkhead, a 2' sheet of knitting grid (or whatever its called), some pvc pipe, a red/blue led, some tubing, adaptors and a small pump.

ATS are usually rated for the equivalent cube of frozen food worth of nutrients it can pull from a system in a day

 

[PDR]

Welcome to R2R!!!

Wow I don't know how I missed this thread! You definitely have a project on your hands but you came to the best place for help!

 

[gt44ever]

So sad news. The Lion didn't survive the weekend.

I did get the immediate term updates

 

[Salty Lemon]

Pros and cons to all of this 1. Most of us on this forum would LOVE to have a tank your size -- let alone move into a house with it already there. You really scored, my friend. 2. I can't imagine the panic I would feel moving to a place with such a tank and being unprepared for it. You have really been doing your homework and seem to be ready to take on the project. You have learned your stuff quickly. 3. Yowza!
This is an excellent place to find information. We have a monster tank forum on here -- you might want to check out what others with huge tanks are doing. And ask questions. There are plenty of veterans on this forum that are more than willing to help.
Welcome to R2R! You will love it here.