NEW OVERFLOW IDEA!

Laddair

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Hello Everyone!
So I don't know if this is a new method to creating a overflow for people who have a Durso overflow and want to go to a siphon method.
So my first tank was an Durso but I was able to get it quiet but I can still hear it in the evening when watching TV. I recently was able to buy a used tank and stand for stupid cheap. I checked all the silicone and even resealed the inside. However the tank is drilled for a Durso also. I have plumbed the tank with a gate valve on the return so I can run a Siphon. I tried the Siphon method and really dialing in the gate valve but it seems even with a long period of time the water line will drift. So for now I have moved back to a Durso overflow. I was able to get a Reef Octopus Varios pump and plan to use it with my Apex to control the pump.
The Varios comes with a nice controller with 5 flow levels. And if connected to a 0-10v you get double the amount of flow levels. So I'm thinking if you can use 2 float valves to control the water level in the overflow by adjusting the flow of the return pump.
I will need to look up how it is written but basically: The water is dialed in as much as possible to drain at a super slow rate. First float valve closes and pump increases flow. This then will push the waterline back up. When the water opens the float valve it then sets the pump to the normal flow rate. This process will repeat depending how well you are able to control the rate of the siphon. A second float valve is there as a safety check. With the float flipped over so there will be about a 1/2 gap between when the pump return to the normal flow rate and when the water opens the second float valve and triggers the safety shutoff. Which can be set to run at a much lower flow rate than what is set as the normal flow rate. As to get the water level back down to normal operating ranges faster.
This can be easily adjusted over time as things change with flow and the efficiency of the siphon. For a third backup you can set a minimum time for the pump to increase it flow. If the time goes over then the flow will return to the normal flow rate automatically. This will be a backup to the safety float switch if it will fail. This is also power loss proof. When power is lost the siphon will go all the way to the lip of the siphon drain. Which will be way below the first float switch. When power is restored the pump will refill the overflow until the first switch is opened.

I use my Apex to run my ATO which has not failed me since 2013 when it first setup. So I think there is merit in this method.

This does require a Aquarium Controller, some sort of breakout box and two float switches.
I currently have the Apex Classic with a breakout box.

This is a bit complex but it will allow people who have a Durso Drilled tank to run a silent siphon.

Please tell me what you guys think? I will provide an update when the materials for the contraption are all together.
 

Biglew11

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Sorry but just my opinion. But any kind of valve acting as a restriction on a durso setup is asking for trouble.

I have a durso setup in my tank, I haven't done this yet but you can run the return line over the back, and then use the two holes in the over flow to setup a Herbie style overflow. Full siphon on one line with barely a trickle down the Emergency drain.

I have an optical sensor in my overflow so that if the drain gets plugged my apex will shut off the return for 30 seconds. If the water level goes down the pump will turn back on. If it doesn't that means it's fully plugged and the sensor will keep the pump off. Even with my drain wide open I have had the sensor trip 3 times on me. Sorry nope no valves on durso drain for me.

Also varying the flow of the return pump will cause the water level in the sump to vary And will wreak havoc on skimmer performance, and your ato will have problems with the changing water levels.
 
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Laddair

Laddair

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So the Durso is no longer going to be a Durso, just a siphon. Also I have a multi chambered sump were the only area the water level changes in in the section with the return pump. The water level that my skimmer will remain at the same level no matter what, unless power is lost. Which the skimmer wont be running anyways.

Thanks for pointing out the ATO issue. To resolve this upgrading to a 200 GPH pump to run on the ATO. This should be plenty of supply for a a quick boost of fresh water and then adjust the refill point at the lowest level that the return pump chamber will be at during the high flow cycle.
 

Biglew11

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So the Durso is no longer going to be a Durso, just a siphon. Also I have a multi chambered sump were the only area the water level changes in in the section with the return pump. The water level that my skimmer will remain at the same level no matter what, unless power is lost. Which the skimmer wont be running anyways.

Thanks for pointing out the ATO issue. To resolve this upgrading to a 200 GPH pump to run on the ATO. This should be plenty of supply for a a quick boost of fresh water and then adjust the refill point at the lowest level that the return pump chamber will be at during the high flow cycle.
the ato issue is a whole lot more than just keeping the water at the same level, with quick adjustments of fresh water into the system you will be changing the salinity of the water to much, our creature's do not like rapid changes in salinity
 

Tamberav

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I put my return over the back for herbie style as others suggested. I love it! Definitely silent.
 
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the ato issue is a whole lot more than just keeping the water at the same level, with quick adjustments of fresh water into the system you will be changing the salinity of the water to much, our creature's do not like rapid changes in salinity
It does sound complex, but I using electronics to get around the physical limitations.

I have designed a backup to a backup so I think it should be fine. I can also set an alarm if the first float switch if it is open for to long which would then indicate a problem and then I can have the return pump run slower.
 
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Laddair

Laddair

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the ato issue is a whole lot more than just keeping the water at the same level, with quick adjustments of fresh water into the system you will be changing the salinity of the water to much, our creature's do not like rapid changes in salinity
I am not sure if lets say a liter of top off needs to be added it will swing a 120 gallon tank very much.
 
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Laddair

Laddair

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I put my return over the back for herbie style as others suggested. I love it! Definitely silent.
Yeah, I had thought of that but were the tank is, pulling it any more away from the wall is not what I want.
 

Miami Reef

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I did a bean animal, but the durso was so loud and complicated.

Now I have one full siphon and 2 emergencies and it’s whisper quiet!
 

Dburr1014

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It does sound complex, but I using electronics to get around the physical limitations.

I have designed a backup to a backup so I think it should be fine. I can also set an alarm if the first float switch if it is open for to long which would then indicate a problem and then I can have the return pump run slower.
If it gets completely clogged, wouldn't you want the pump to stop? Even a slow pump will flood a tank.
 

Shirak

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I have a single drain on my old tank.. tried durso can't get it quiet. tried to slow to a siphon.. sort of works but inevitably will slowly clog or sometimes rapidly! Can't tell you the number of times I have flooded the office and basement over the years. I now run it completely wide open and it never clogs, but sounds like Niagara Falls! One of these days I am going to build my new tank...

Never EVER again will I run a tank with a single drain. 2 or more or an overflow that has 2 or more...
 
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Laddair

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If it gets completely clogged, wouldn't you want the pump to stop? Even a slow pump will flood a tank.
This is what the second float switch would be for when it is closed it will turn the pump down to it minimum level and then also send me an alarm via Apex. I then also would set a maximum run time and then it would shut off the pump completely. I am also looking for a high flow strainer. I once came across one for a 1 inch slip fitting but the strainer was like 6 inches long. If the overflow become completely clogged I would be getting notifications well in advanced. This would also be I would look at the overflow on a 2-3 day cycle to make sure everything is running fine.
 
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Laddair

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I have a single drain on my old tank.. tried durso can't get it quiet. tried to slow to a siphon.. sort of works but inevitably will slowly clog or sometimes rapidly! Can't tell you the number of times I have flooded the office and basement over the years. I now run it completely wide open and it never clogs, but sounds like Niagara Falls! One of these days I am going to build my new tank...

Never EVER again will I run a tank with a single drain. 2 or more or an overflow that has 2 or more...
Yeah... don't think the wife would appreciate Niagara falls in our Living room.
 

Koh23

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I'm old school, better dinosaur school...

One simple rule, divided in two even simplier ones.....

Your sump should be able to receive every last drop of water from your tank, in every circumstance.

Your tank should be able to receive every drop of water from your sump in every circumstance.

Overflow with 3 pipes, one main, regulated via valve, one secondary fully open (or partialy, for silencing) and one backup with no restrictions.

Silent, reliable. If all three of them gets clogged, which is almost impossible, return pump in chamber should have amount of water that can get into tank without spilling outside.... So that pump runs dry....

Idea is good, but like someone said, simple is better, soo many points here when things can seriously go wrong....
 

All_talk

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I have a single drain on my old tank.. tried durso can't get it quiet. tried to slow to a siphon.. sort of works but inevitably will slowly clog or sometimes rapidly! Can't tell you the number of times I have flooded the office and basement over the years. I now run it completely wide open and it never clogs, but sounds like Niagara Falls! One of these days I am going to build my new tank...

Never EVER again will I run a tank with a single drain. 2 or more or an overflow that has 2 or more...

I too have a single drain and will NEVER have another, next tank will be Bean Animal.


I'm old school, better dinosaur school...

One simple rule, divided in two even simplier ones.....

Your sump should be able to receive every last drop of water from your tank, in every circumstance.

Your tank should be able to receive every drop of water from your sump in every circumstance.

Overflow with 3 pipes, one main, regulated via valve, one secondary fully open (or partialy, for silencing) and one backup with no restrictions.

Silent, reliable. If all three of them gets clogged, which is almost impossible, return pump in chamber should have amount of water that can get into tank without spilling outside.... So that pump runs dry....

Idea is good, but like someone said, simple is better, soo many points here when things can seriously go wrong....


I agree, the sump should take all drain back when the pump is off and the tank should take all pump out if the drain clogs. Actually I though this was the rule with sumps, never thought of doing it differently, but I'm a dinosaur too.
 

dedragon

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If the tank is drilled for a durso and 3/4" return pipe like mine is, i just run the 3/4 inch as the main drain with a gate valve and the 1 inch as the emergency drain. I then ran the return behind the tank and over the top into the tank.

Too many failure points for the durso, float switch combo, and water all over the floor
 
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Laddair

Laddair

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Thanks for all the feedback everyone. So While playing with the drains the other day. The return pump section of the sump will empty before overflowing the tank.

Secondly, the sump can take all the water if there was a power outage.

On the Varios pumps, you have the option to attach a Float Switch that will shut off the pump if the water level gets to low.

So I think everything seems to be covered or backed up somehow.
 

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