New RODI with High TDS....Stumped

jjstecchino

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How old is your membrane? Mine took a few weeks to make water at 0 tds. However even a new membrane won’t explain your system making more to water than waste
 
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TunnelRatt

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Each membrane currently has a minimum of 50 hours of run time. I don't see what else it can be other than the housings or membranes.
 
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TunnelRatt

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So I contacted BRS last night and the agent I spoke to thinks it could possibly be a pressure issue due to the fluctuations I was having that I described in my original post and to the slight fluctuations I am currently having. At this time, BRS is sending out a new gauge to me. This is what the gauge was doing last night after I got off the phone with BRS:
  • 63 - 64 psi with source water hooked directly to gauge with faucet fully open
  • 60 - 62.5 psi with rodi running and faucet fully open
  • Later that night gauge was resting steady at 64 psi
I am interested to hear what you guys think. I am very surprised that the slight fluctuations that I am currently having would cause the issues.
 

AllSignsPointToFish

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So I contacted BRS last night and the agent I spoke to thinks it could possibly be a pressure issue due to the fluctuations I was having that I described in my original post and to the slight fluctuations I am currently having. At this time, BRS is sending out a new gauge to me. This is what the gauge was doing last night after I got off the phone with BRS:
  • 63 - 64 psi with source water hooked directly to gauge with faucet fully open
  • 60 - 62.5 psi with rodi running and faucet fully open
  • Later that night gauge was resting steady at 64 psi
I am interested to hear what you guys think. I am very surprised that the slight fluctuations that I am currently having would cause the issues.
Honestly, I don't believe those pressure fluctuations are causing the issues you're experiencing.
 

Water Dog

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Honestly, I don't believe those pressure fluctuations are causing the issues you're experiencing.
Nor do I... whenever I run my dishwasher or do the laundry, my pressure fluctuates and I have no issues making water.

Don‘t know if it was mentioned before, but have you tried removing the second membrane to see if your system operates normally as a single membrane 75 gpd unit?
 

AllSignsPointToFish

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Nor do I... whenever I run my dishwasher or do the laundry, my pressure fluctuates and I have no issues making water.

Don‘t know if it was mentioned before, but have you tried removing the second membrane to see if your system operates normally as a single membrane 75 gpd unit?
My experience as well. As long as there is sufficient line pressure (50 psig or greater), the unit makes clean water.
 
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TunnelRatt

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Nor do I... whenever I run my dishwasher or do the laundry, my pressure fluctuates and I have no issues making water.

Don‘t know if it was mentioned before, but have you tried removing the second membrane to see if your system operates normally as a single membrane 75 gpd unit?
Unfortunately I am still getting negative results in the single membrane configuration. Single membrane results are:
  • High fluctuating TDS with odd pattern after single RO membrane. Example: 25, 20, 22, 14, 19
  • With a single membrane, I am getting about 1.75 gallons of waste to 1 gallon of product
 
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TunnelRatt

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Honestly, I don't believe those pressure fluctuations are causing the issues you're experiencing.
I explained to the BRS agent that I don't think the slight fluctuations in pressure would cause such odd results, but he expressed that even slight fluctuations in pressure would cause the issues that I am experiencing. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.
 

AllSignsPointToFish

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I explained to the BRS agent that I don't think the slight fluctuations in pressure would cause such odd results, but he expressed that even slight fluctuations in pressure would cause the issues that I am experiencing. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Well, if that's the case, then I would never be able to make 0 ppm TDS water since our water pressure is all over the place! :)

There has to be sufficient pressure to drive the permeation of water through the semi-permeable membrane. Once that pressure is present, the only thing additional pressure will do is increase the production rate. I believe even the lowest pressure you've reported is more than enough to run reverse osmosis at reasonable rates.
 
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TunnelRatt

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UPDATE:

I received an email from BRS yesterday (11/13) expressing that they discussed the issue among their experts and concluded that the problem is inconsistent pressure coming from my source, so they will no longer be sending a replacement gauge as they offered and they now recommend that I should tap directly into a house water line to obtain a more stable pressure. At this point, to make a long story short, my wife and I don't agree with BRS and we called to tell them that this is not working out and that we would like to process a return. At that time the agent wants to know why and then basically starts to ask us what is occurring and the typical rodi related questions. During that part of the conversation, I explain that the incoming TDS is approximately 185 and that I am getting fluctuating TDS levels (Ex. 20, 14, 19, 10) with a waste/product ratio of 1.75 gallon of waste to 1 gallon of product water on a single membrane. She expresses that the TDS levels are actually low and it should actually be around 30. I then told her that I have to disagree and that a 97% rejection would be around 6 and that at 30, I would burn right through the DI resin. At this point, she's silent and then expresses that she doesn't know if they can take it back because it's now used (note: even though they offered to replace the first one...we did not ask them to do so) and needs to consult with her manager. After a while, she returns and expresses that they cannot take the unit back and that her manager will be calling us today (11/14) to help resolve the matter. Let's see what happens.


BTW, is it okay to post any email from BRS on the forum?
 
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TunnelRatt

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To make an extremely long story short:
  • BRS would take it back if we shipped it back on our dime even though it's not working properly
  • Cost with UPS was over $50 for one of the two boxes....NO WAY!
  • Manager expressed that BRS does not take items back unless they are defective and that he personally tested the first rodi unit and was not able to duplicate any of the symptoms.;Wideyed;Jawdrop
  • After we discussed the workings of an rodi the manager decided to authorize a return and send UPS return labels. He expressed that if BRS could not duplicate the symptoms, we would be responsible for their UPS discounted rate of $14.98 per box.
 

madweazl

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Did you ever try hooking it up to an outside spigot to see if it reacted differently (input line from a faucet is tiny)?
 
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TunnelRatt

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Did you ever try hooking it up to an outside spigot to see if it reacted differently (input line from a faucet is tiny)?
No I didn't. I did my initial pressure reading at the spigot before purchasing an rodi and when I received the rodi, I used the gauge it came with and hooked it directly to the sink faucet (64-68psi). It definitely seems to fall into the parameters to function properly.
 

rushbattle

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@Bulk Reef Supply refused to take back my faulty RO unit as well. They trouble shot for a few emails and then just straight up refused to do anything about it. I rebuilt the system with quality components and it’s working great. To be clear, in both cases it seems the inmate is running the asylum. You had good troubleshooting help here, and no way their pressure excuse is reasonable. I have been running RO units since the 90s and I have engineered sealing systems that are rated up to 20,000psi. They really don’t have the expertise or common sense to be selling RO units, and it’s so frustrating that they didn’t provide reasonable support for myself and a number of others I have stopped shopping with them.
 

AllSignsPointToFish

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@Bulk Reef Supply refused to take back my faulty RO unit as well. They trouble shot for a few emails and then just straight up refused to do anything about it. I rebuilt the system with quality components and it’s working great. To be clear, in both cases it seems the inmate is running the asylum. You had good troubleshooting help here, and no way their pressure excuse is reasonable. I have been running RO units since the 90s and I have engineered sealing systems that are rated up to 20,000psi. They really don’t have the expertise or common sense to be selling RO units, and it’s so frustrating that they didn’t provide reasonable support for myself and a number of others I have stopped shopping with them.
Was there anything in particular that you identified as the root cause of the failure? (just curious)
 
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rushbattle

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Was there anything in particular that you identified as the root cause of the failure? (just curious)
The 10” filter housings were misshapen. The o-rings can’t seal against a warped surface. I replaced the filter housings that BRS was POSITIVE were not the problem and refused to replace under their worthless warranty, and now no leaks. Imagine that.
 

AllSignsPointToFish

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The 10” filter housings were misshapen. The o-rings can’t seal against a warped surface. I replaced the filter housings that BRS was POSITIVE were not the problem and refused to replace under their worthless warranty, and now no leaks. Imagine that.
Thanks for that! Good to know!
 
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TunnelRatt

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So guys, I was thinking how the manager at BRS expressed that he couldn't duplicate any issues that I had with the first unit. The symptoms were posted in my original post, but here they are:
  • High fluctuating TDS after RO membranes. Example: 25, 20, 22, 14, 19
  • Producing product water faster than waste
  • Water continuing to run from waste line after closing ball valve on product line​
Please correct me if I am wrong, but if their findings were correct, I believe they're basically trying to say that the membrane was installed incorrectly and that nothing was wrong with the ASO. Please note that they were sent photos and they confirmed that everything was set up correctly.
 

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