New Tank Challenges ....

[Jon Fleck]

Overflow Tuning Recommendations, Please

Having issues tuning/regulating flow on my 40 gallon breeder which is going into it's second month.

20 gallon DIY sump with three chambers (protein skimmer, refugium and return pump section with a gate to adjust water level in first two chambers).

DC return pump running at approximately 600 gallons per hour.

600 gallon overflow with three down tubes (bean type: two ¾” down with CEPEX valves & 1 ¾”emergency down).

The continuing issues being encountered are:

#1. Lowering return pump change gate raises the pump section to level the same across all chambers but below the recommended water level for the skimmer and causes the overflow to run dangerously low.

#2. Elevating the return pump chamber gate to raise skimmer section water to the recommended level causes the overflow to run high including send water down the emergency down and causes the return pump chamber to run low.

Adjustments of minute change in the CEPEX valves to address either of the two issues which are installed on the drains can cause the overflow level to “bottom out” or the return chamber to go very low.

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

Thanks in advance.

JFF

 

[virtual reality]

Could we see a picture of this setup? It might help to understand.:)

 

[lapin]

O

#1. Lowering return pump gate raises the return pump section to level the same across all chambers but below the recommended water level for the skimmer and causes the overflow to run dangerously low.

#2. Elevating the return pump chamber gate to raise skimmer section water to the recommended level causes the overflow to run high including send water down the emergency down and causes the return pump chamber to run low.

Adjustments of minute change in the CEPEX valves to address either of the two issues which are installed on the drains can cause the overflow level to “bottom out” or the return chamber to go very low.

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

Thanks in advance.

JFF

So I have a few questions
What is a pump chamber gate?
What do you mean by lowering or elevating? Does your sump chambers have adjustable baffles that you are lowering or elevating?
Are CEPEX valves ball valves or gate valves?
What is height of the pipes in the overflow ?

 

[Jon Fleck]

Overflow Tuning Recommendations, Please

Having issues tuning/regulating flow on my 40 gallon breeder which is going into it's second month.

20 gallon DIY sump with three chambers (protein skimmer, refugium and return pump section with a gate to adjust water level in first two chambers).

DC return pump running at approximately 600 gallons per hour.

600 gallon overflow with three down tubes (bean type: two ¾” down with CEPEX valves & 1 ¾”emergency down).

The continuing issues being encountered are:

#1. Lowering return pump change gate raises the pump section to level the same across all chambers but below the recommended water level for the skimmer and causes the overflow to run dangerously low.

#2. Elevating the return pump chamber gate to raise skimmer section water to the recommended level causes the overflow to run high including send water down the emergency down and causes the return pump chamber to run low.

Adjustments of minute change in the CEPEX valves to address either of the two issues which are installed on the drains can cause the overflow level to “bottom out” or the return chamber to go very low.

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

Thanks in advance.

JFF

Overflow Tuning Recommendations, Please

Having issues tuning/regulating flow on my 40 gallon breeder which is going into it's second month.

20 gallon DIY sump with three chambers (protein skimmer, refugium and return pump section with a gate to adjust water level in first two chambers).

DC return pump running at approximately 600 gallons per hour.

600 gallon overflow with three down tubes (bean type: two ¾” down with CEPEX valves & 1 ¾”emergency down).

The continuing issues being encountered are:

#1. Lowering return pump change gate raises the pump section to level the same across all chambers but below the recommended water level for the skimmer and causes the overflow to run dangerously low.

#2. Elevating the return pump chamber gate to raise skimmer section water to the recommended level causes the overflow to run high including send water down the emergency down and causes the return pump chamber to run low.

Adjustments of minute change in the CEPEX valves to address either of the two issues which are installed on the drains can cause the overflow level to “bottom out” or the return chamber to go very low.

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

Thanks in advance.

JFF

CONTINUING .....
Here are the current pictures that I believed pertinent.
Thanks !!!!
JFF

 

[Jon Fleck]

So I have a few questions
What is a pump chamber gate?
It is an adjustable baffle
What do you mean by lowering or elevating?
Moving the adjustable baffle higher of lower.
Does your sump chambers have adjustable baffles that you are lowering or elevating?
Are CEPEX valves ball valves or gate valves?
CEPEX are ball valves.

 

[lapin]

From the photos, your baffles look like they are siliconed in and not adjustable. I might be wrong.
Do have your overflow pipes at different levels? Highest should be emergency. Next the secondary. Lowest should be your main drain.
To tune a bean drain, you open up your main drain valve all the way and your secondary valve all the way. Fill your sump to the level you want. (This is where you want your return pump chamber level to be at). All chambers should be full so water is going over the baffles. Now turn on your return pump. You will need to add more water as your overflow and pipes fill with water. Then start closing your main drain valve until just a trickle goes down the secondary pipe. With a ball valve, the adjustment is very hard to get exactly right. Gate valves allow for finer adjustments. With just a trickle going down your secondary, your overflow box should be filled to the height of your secondary pipe drain.

 

[lapin]

Your skimmer chamber height is set by the height of the exit baffle. That chamber should be full. In the picture it is not. I would fill that chamber until the water level in your return pump chamber is at the height you want it at. Water will flow over all the baffles and settle in the return chamber.
That adjustable baffle needs to be set the same ( so your return pump chamber is at the height you want it at)

 

[Jon Fleck]

Your skimmer chamber height is set by the height of the exit baffle. That chamber should be full. In the picture it is not. I would fill that chamber until the water level in your return pump chamber is at the height you want it at. Water will flow over all the baffles and settle in the return chamber.
That adjustable baffle needs to be set the same ( so your return pump chamber is at the height you want it at)

Your assistance and information is greatly appreciated and has shown flaws in the information that I was provided and acted up.
First and foremost, my secondary drain pipe was the same as the main drain which is how I was told it should be however, now will be changed.
If you could assist in some confirmations of what I gleaned from your information.
#1. The water level in my skimmer section should be be higher (9" is the recommended level from the manufacturer).
#2. The adjustable baffle should be set to determine the level of water I want in the return pump chamber.
#3. Is it possible to implement a gate valve in the primary drain pipe leaving the ball valve in line with the existing plumbing and opening it fully.
#4. Your assistance has been extremely value added......could I continue in utilizing your knowledge until I get this challenge put to rest?
JFF

 

[lapin]

Your assistance and information is greatly appreciated and has shown flaws in the information that I was provided and acted up.
First and foremost, my secondary drain pipe was the same as the main drain which is how I was told it should be however, now will be changed.
If you could assist in some confirmations of what I gleaned from your information.

Ok

#1. The water level in my skimmer section should be be higher (9" is the recommended level from the manufacturer).

With that chamber full to the top of the bafffle I would think it should be close to 9" . 8" might be ok, depends on how fussy the skimmer is. If the water level is too high then you can raise the skimmer with a platform.

#2. The adjustable baffle should be set to determine the level of water I want in the return pump chamber.

Yes

#3. Is it possible to implement a gate valve in the primary drain pipe leaving the ball valve in line with the existing plumbing and opening it fully.

Yes, If you have room. Or just replace the ball valve with a gate valve. I dont think they make true union gate valves, in case you wonder.

#4. Your assistance has been extremely value added......could I continue in utilizing your knowledge until I get this challenge put to rest?
JFF

Sure No problem

 

[Jon Fleck]

Ok


With that chamber full to the top of the bafffle I would think it should be close to 9" . 8" might be ok, depends on how fussy the skimmer is. If the water level is too high then you can raise the skimmer with a platform.


Yes


Yes, If you have room. Or just replace the ball valve with a gate valve. I dont think they make true union gate valves, in case you wonder.


Sure No problem

Dear Lapin -

Am I correct in my understanding that the adjustable baffle is solely used to adjust the water height in the skimmer section?

To that end, is the assumption valid that the amount of flow coming from the overflow will facilitate in keeping the water height in the skimmer section (8"-9"), correct?

Thanks -

JFF

 

[lapin]

Dear Lapin -

Am I correct in my understanding that the adjustable baffle is solely used to adjust the water height in the skimmer section?

If water goes over the top of the baffle (skimmer to media reactor section) then by raising the adjustable baffle, (the one before the return pump section) the water will be higher in the media reactor section only. Unless the adjustable baffle can be raised higher than the one separating the skimmer from the media reactor.

To that end, is the assumption valid that the amount of flow coming from the overflow will facilitate in keeping the water height in the skimmer section (8"-9"), correct?

Yes. The skimmer section is only controlled but the height of the baffle separating the skimmer section from the media reactor section. If that baffle is 8" or 9" tall then the water will stay that height. The only way for it to be lower, is for you to lower the baffle between the skimmer and the media reactor.

 

[Jon Fleck]

From the photos, your baffles look like they are siliconed in and not adjustable. I might be wrong.
Do have your overflow pipes at different levels? Highest should be emergency. Next the secondary. Lowest should be your main drain.
To tune a bean drain, you open up your main drain valve all the way and your secondary valve all the way. Fill your sump to the level you want. (This is where you want your return pump chamber level to be at). All chambers should be full so water is going over the baffles. Now turn on your return pump. You will need to add more water as your overflow and pipes fill with water. Then start closing your main drain valve until just a trickle goes down the secondary pipe. With a ball valve, the adjustment is very hard to get exactly right. Gate valves allow for finer adjustments. With just a trickle going down your secondary, your overflow box should be filled to the height of your secondary pipe drain.

Dear Lapin....one further question....I was advised that I have a Herbie overflow, so does it matter in the scenario you outlined that the secondary pipe is a straight pipe versus having the curved U pipe? I am to receive the new gate valve today and install tomorrow to get a bit more finite flow control on the primary drain. THANKS as always....Jon (JFF)

 

[lapin]

Dear Lapin....one further question....I was advised that I have a Herbie overflow, so does it matter in the scenario you outlined that the secondary pipe is a straight pipe versus having the curved U pipe?

The only difference is: a straight open pipe will make more noise than a curved pipe with a small air hole in it.