New tank cycled in 4 days?? - I'm new so maybe I'm wrong...

[JasonG1]

Hi all. I'm new and could be wrong so please advise... I just recall in my research that once Nitrates show up and Ammonia and Nitrite are 0 (or near 0) that you're cycled.

I just got the following readings after 4 days on my new tank:

--Tuesday 5/16/2023:
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0.05
Nitrate = 1

Doesn't this mean I'm already cycled or close to it? The fact that Ammonia is 0, Nitrite is near-0, and there is already Nitrate!? Please advise on whether this is just the cycle starting and I must have Nitrite at actual 0 to "end" the cycle.

I started my new IM 40 on Friday (05/12/2023) morning with RODI, 30 lbs BRS dry live rock, and 20lbs CaribSea Sand (and salt of course). That night I added Dr.Tim's, and 2 clownfish. I started light feeding of the clownfish Saturday. I'm using a new Red Sea Marine Care Test kit. My AI 16 prime is on 1% blue during the day to just give enough light to see things a little.

I'm watching Ammonia every couple days to immediately do water changes, if needed, to lessen negative impacts on the clownfish.

--Sunday 5/14/2023 readings (didn't even bother to check Nitrate on day 2):
SG = 1.022
PH = 7.6
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0

Thank you all!
Jason

 

[cdklos]

Did you add an ammonia source or bacteria? Are you doing a fish less-cycle?

The best way to cycle in my opinion is add Dr. Tim’s or Fritz TurboStart900. (Follow directions on bottle). Dos ammonia to 3.0 PPM. Test ammonia everyday. When you see ammonia drop to 0, dose ammonia again back to 3.0PPM. Do this as many times as you want, the more times, the more your bacteria will establish itself. Is usually do this 3x. After seeing the ammonia drop to 0.00 from 3.00PPM within 24 hours, then check nitrites. Your nitrites will take longer to drop, once your nitrites and ammonia are dropping to 0.00PPM in 24 hours, then test nitrates. You want your nitrates to be about 20ppm. If they are at 40 do a 50% water change. If they are at 60ppm do a 66% water change. Do the math and get them to about 20. Once you have done this water change you are good for some fish.

The beneficial bacteria lives on the rocks and substrate, not in the water so don’t worry about that. Also, don’t let your ammonia get over 5ppm, if it does, do a water change to bring it back down to 2-3ppm.

Also, you can raise your tank temp to 83 or 84, the cycle will go faster. I usually cycle at 84F and 1.017 salinity. Then do a water change to bring my salinity to 1.025, drop my temp to 79 and add fish.

 

[nuxx]

Wouldn't jump into adding anything.

If you still think it's cycled in a few days, could try adding something super hardy.

 

[cdklos]

Wouldn't jump into adding anything.

If you still think it's cycled in a few days, could try adding something super hardy.

He could have nitrites and nitrates in his water naturally. I did an ICP test on my RO/DI water and found the nitrates at 2.0.

If he never saw an ammonia spike or even any ammonia at all, I would guess it hasn’t cycled at all. I could be wrong, but the post reads like he just added water and tested a week later, found no ammonia, so it must be cycled.

 

[jda]

All that it means is that you have enough anaerobic bacteria to handle the waste from a pair of clownfish. It does not mean that it could quickly multiply to add more fish... but it could. That zero reading could be fools gold.

There is no harm in waiting and going slow. Even if you don't kill your clowns, ammonia can permanently damage their gills in the same vane as chemical fires or asbestos can harm human lungs... only there are no 1-800 lawyers to collect settlements for your clownfish.

Soon, the dead organics on that BRS dry live rock will start to decay, as well, and add to the organic load. This usually happens at a pace commensurate with the bacteria that can handle them, but not always, so keep and eye out.

Please study up on the actual nitrogen cycle and not just what you see on here. The real nitrogen cycle will not be done for many months, or a year, until you grow/develop anaerobic bacteria to convert no3 into nitrogen gas.

If you are describing a tank cycle, then it is done when the ammonia will never climb nearly no matter what happens... fish death, fish added and more food, organics decomposing, etc. You can read zero on ammonia and still not be here. This is just part of the nitrogen cycle.

The clown will likely jump in with old cycle vs new cycle and some garbage like that. Cycles have always been the same... you have to wait for the bacteria multiply and you have provide them with some fuel to do that... slowly. You can interfere with chemicals, water changes, etc. or go fast, but everything that you do to interfere has to be repaid eventually. A bit of film algae is a good sign that things are progressing nicely and a better indicator than a zero on an ammonia test kit.

 

[cdklos]

All that it means is that you have enough anaerobic bacteria to handle the waste from a pair of clownfish. It does not mean that it could quickly multiply to add more fish... but it could. That zero reading could be fools gold.

There is no harm in waiting and going slow. Even if you don't kill your clowns, ammonia can permanently damage their gills in the same vane as chemical fires or asbestos can harm human lungs... only there are no 1-800 lawyers to collect settlements for your clownfish.

Soon, the dead organics on that BRS dry live rock will start to decay, as well, and add to the organic load. This usually happens at a pace commensurate with the bacteria that can handle them, but not always, so keep and eye out.

Please study up on the actual nitrogen cycle and not just what you see on here. The real nitrogen cycle will not be done for many months, or a year, until you grow/develop anaerobic bacteria to convert no3 into nitrogen gas.

If you are describing a tank cycle, then it is done when the ammonia will never climb nearly no matter what happens... fish death, fish added and more food, organics decomposing, etc. You can read zero on ammonia and still not be here. This is just part of the nitrogen cycle.

The clown will likely jump in with old cycle vs new cycle and some garbage like that. Cycles have always been the same... you have to wait for the bacteria multiply and you have provide them with some fuel to do that... slowly. You can interfere with chemicals, water changes, etc. or go fast, but everything that you do to interfere has to be repaid eventually. A bit of film algae is a good sign that things are progressing nicely and a better indicator than a zero on an ammonia test kit.

Agreed. Well said.

 

[JasonG1]

Thank you @cdklos ! I'm not adding ammonia...just using the 2 clowns and feeding to produce ammonia.

 

[Dave1993]

Thank you @cdklos ! I'm not adding ammonia...just using the 2 clowns and feeding to produce ammonia.

not cool

 

[JasonG1]

Thank you @jda - much appreciated. I will go slow and follow your guidance. I just couldn't believe it when I saw nitrate and 0 ammonia on day 4!

 

[brandon429]

This is where you stand:

The reason your ammonia isn't climbing is because your bottle bac wasn't dead it's active, and working, like the half million searchable examples of fish- in cycling we see online, they all worked fine. It's not about testing, you're using non digital testers that also comprise half a million searchable ammonia test kit misreads online, we can't just pick and choose when they're right or not, these kits you have misread

If your ammonia said .5, you'd still be cycled, you only got lucky the particular kit didn't register the small degree of ammonia in conversion found in all stocked reefs as a 'stuck cycle' (i have misread threads showing two year old tanks at .5 api ammonia, they're misreads, no calibrated seneye in history shows a stalled cycle in a 2 year old reef tank)

We already have a reference study thread/ dr reefs bottle bac thread/ that shows the implantation date for that bottle bac brand you used. This isn't the type of cycle that rises and falls 2ppm to zero, you have fish in tow that are feeding the bacteria below the level your tests can detect. You'd simply proceed onward without testing, guess testing can't help you: the bottle bac worked is why you're not seeing ammonia rise

I have a thread where nine large fish, corals, anemones / an entire reef was added on day one you haven't asked too much of the bacteria for sure. Two clowns is easy for it to handle, they're not acting burned because bottle bac won't allow them to be burned, it didn't hurt them to use it this way: half a million people already have as well. Yes it's cycled because your initial bioload isn't a large request to handle at all. Rocks aren't going to pump ammonia, it's fine.

Your unspoken issue isn't cycling for ammonia, bottle bac engineers got that figured out 20+ years ago

Adding unprepared fish/ no quarantine no fallow/ plus the coming stock that isn't qt or fallow will be the hard part. Cycle is done don't look back there.

Read this thread:

Has anyone done coral/inverts only and no fish at first?

Fish seem to be the main cause of disruption in a display tank, given the current circumstances in the hobby with pests (ich, velvet, parasites, etc.). I have been in this hobby for 18 years, and the amount of pests that are showing up lately is much more (could also be the fact that we have...

www.reef2reef.com

If you want to avoid fish disease that's how.

 

[cdklos]

This is where you stand:

The reason your ammonia isn't climbing is because your bottle bac wasn't dead it's active, and working, like the half million searchable examples of fish- in cycling we see online, they all worked fine. It's not about testing, you're using non digital testers that also comprise half a million searchable ammonia test kit misreads online, we can't just pick and choose when they're right or not, these kits you have misread

If your ammonia said .5, you'd still be cycled, you only got lucky the particular kit didn't register the small degree of ammonia in conversion found in all stocked reefs as a 'stuck cycle' (i have misread threads showing two year old tanks at .5 api ammonia, they're misreads, no calibrated seneye in history shows a stalled cycle in a 2 year old reef tank)

We already have a reference study thread/ dr reefs bottle bac thread/ that shows the implantation date for that bottle bac brand you used. This isn't the type of cycle that rises and falls 2ppm to zero, you have fish in tow that are feeding the bacteria below the level your tests can detect. You'd simply proceed onward without testing, guess testing can't help you: the bottle bac worked is why you're not seeing ammonia rise

I have a thread where nine large fish, corals, anemones / an entire reef was added on day one you haven't asked too much of the bacteria for sure. Two clowns is easy for it to handle, they're not acting burned because bottle bac won't allow them to be burned, it didn't hurt them to use it this way: half a million people already have as well. Yes it's cycled because your initial bioload isn't a large request to handle at all. Rocks aren't going to pump ammonia, it's fine.

Your unspoken issue isn't cycling for ammonia, bottle bac engineers got that figured out 20+ years ago

Adding unprepared fish/ no quarantine no fallow/ plus the coming stock that isn't qt or fallow will be the hard part. Cycle is done don't look back there.

Read this thread:

Has anyone done coral/inverts only and no fish at first?

Fish seem to be the main cause of disruption in a display tank, given the current circumstances in the hobby with pests (ich, velvet, parasites, etc.). I have been in this hobby for 18 years, and the amount of pests that are showing up lately is much more (could also be the fact that we have...

www.reef2reef.com

If you want to avoid fish disease that's how.

I went back and reread the initial post, I missed the addition of Dr. Tim’s when the fish were added initially. I totally agree with Brandon, your tank is cycled just fine for 2 little clown fish.

 

[jda]

Any extra bacteria from the bottle that did not get fuel are likely dead or dying. They cannot live indefinitely outside of the bottle. Cycle is a strong word. You appear to be able to handle small feedings of a few clownfish, but a quickly responding ecosystem is not likely done yet. Just got slow and avoid stupid words like cycled since it takes a year or more for a tank to fully cycle by the actual definition of the term. You have some bacteria that can handle some clownfish that are there to multiply if you add more load - that is all.

The gut bacteria of your fish are also in play now... more types than in a bottle.

The bacteria can multiply fast and having all of them is good. You still have to be careful not to add or feed too fast or you can burn the gills of your fish, even if they live.

I hate false equivalencies, but you have a muscle car engine that been broken in but not yet at the first oil change. It runs and you can drive it, but the rings are not yet fully developed against the piston walls, the valves are not fully seated and the cam can wear if you go too hard... this nearly always results in premature engine failure down the line. You still have to wait a while before you go to the drag strip. Only fools think that an engine is fully ready to go wide open (and those fools exist) once is starts up and has broken in asking for proof that damage is done, but none of the engines that are used to quickly live as long of a life as those done correctly. Those fools are not around or do not want to hear it when the engine dies at 40k miles instead of 150k... they blame something else and refuse to put a failure on their record of stupid advice.

 

[taricha]

Doesn't this mean I'm already cycled or close to it? The fact that Ammonia is 0, Nitrite is near-0

is it fine? probably. I like to see detectable significant ammonia processed to NO2/NO3.
With fish-in, this isn't something you can easily do, so keep the feedings steady. If NO2/NO3 climbs without ammonia increasing then yeah - that's the demonstration of cycling bacteria being established.

 

[Cell]

2, I assume small clowns, in a 40G will take some time to build up ammonia.

 

[Gretchacha]

Hi all. I'm new and could be wrong so please advise... I just recall in my research that once Nitrates show up and Ammonia and Nitrite are 0 (or near 0) that you're cycled.

I just got the following readings after 4 days on my new tank:

--Tuesday 5/16/2023:
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0.05
Nitrate = 1

Doesn't this mean I'm already cycled or close to it? The fact that Ammonia is 0, Nitrite is near-0, and there is already Nitrate!? Please advise on whether this is just the cycle starting and I must have Nitrite at actual 0 to "end" the cycle.

I started my new IM 40 on Friday (05/12/2023) morning with RODI, 30 lbs BRS dry live rock, and 20lbs CaribSea Sand (and salt of course). That night I added Dr.Tim's, and 2 clownfish. I started light feeding of the clownfish Saturday. I'm using a new Red Sea Marine Care Test kit. My AI 16 prime is on 1% blue during the day to just give enough light to see things a little.

I'm watching Ammonia every couple days to immediately do water changes, if needed, to lessen negative impacts on the clownfish.

--Sunday 5/14/2023 readings (didn't even bother to check Nitrate on day 2):
SG = 1.022
PH = 7.6
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0

Thank you all!
Jason

If you are removing ammonia with water changes, you are removing the nutrients that the nitrifying bacteria need to multiply. In my experience with Dr Tims, when it goes right, it still takes 8-10 days to get through the phases. That product is bacteria cysts, and will take longer to accomplish cycling than a live source such as Fritz Turbostart.

 

[Gretchacha]

May I suggest feeding a low protein pellet for 2 weeks? Something like New Life Spectrum and Hikari Seaweed Extreme, or any other pellet less than 40% protein? It will speed up the bacteria growth and limit the ammonia production, helping you make a stable, stressless fish-in cycle.

 

[Gretchacha]

The bacteria can multiply fast and having all of them is good. You still have to be careful not to add or feed too fast or you can burn the gills of your fish, even if they live.

You still have to wait a while before you go to the drag strip. Only fools think that an engine is fully ready to go wide open (and those fools exist) once is starts up and has broken in asking for proof that damage is done, but none of the engines that are used to quickly live as long of a life as those done correctly.

I would add corals and snails, but no more fish for two months. The bacteria needs time to colonize deeply and mature.