New to hobby, first build advice needed.

[GazS]

Hi all,


I am new to this hobby and am in the research and planning stage for the past month of my first reef tank. I am almost ready to start purchasing and would like your opinion on a few things :) Sorry in advance for the lengthy post. I should point out that my early goal for my tank is to support a few fish, inverts and softies as i learn.


I am going for a reefer 425XL as i have the space, first main question for this is a recommended light ? i go back and forth on spending big on the light or budgeting for other things like better power heads/ skimmer / controller. Should i spring for a Giesemann Aurora T5/LED or is a less expensive LED only fine for a beginner.


Second big question is around RO/DI system and automatic water changes. I simply dont have the space for a mixing station, i can setup a couple of 25gallon ish containers but plumbing them horizontally from garage to display tank will be difficult, are water changes going to be a big pain in the butt if i do have to do manually? Perhaps i could have a hose i could drag through the house?

In terms of sump space, i will be using the cabinet underneath the reefer 425XL, i will run a refugium / skimmer / ato . Do you think i should add in a manifold for future reactors? Also do you think i need any reactors to start with ?

Last question … Controllers and sensors like the apex, seneye reef pack.. Is it worth saving and getting them at the beginning or are manual testing kits ok for the beginning?

Thanks a lot for looking,
Graham

 

[jsker]

Welcome to R2R :)

i go back and forth on spending big on the light or budgeting

Spend on the lights, since you will eventually replace the budget light sooner then later. The Giesemann lights are some of the best and what I have read, most are very happy with them.

Second big question is around RO/DI system and automatic water changes. I simply dont have the space for a mixing station, i can setup a couple of 25gallon ish containers but plumbing them horizontally from garage to display tank will be difficult, are water changes going to be a big pain in the butt if i do have to do manually? Perhaps i could have a hose i could drag through the house?

Yes, if you live in a cold climate one will have to heat the water. This will be a good read for you link

manual testing kits ok for the beginning?

Automatic testing is so new that I would stick with good manual tests right now

 

[GazS]

Thanks @jsker much appreciated. That link is very useful, i could build a smaller version with less water i think.

 

[reef lover]

Welcome to r2r and the salt life!!

 

[Billldg]

Welcome to R2R!!! I think nothing else needs to be said, @jsker hit all the key points on the head. I agree, eventually you will upgrade the lights as I did, so that is one thing you don't want to budget. I personally have the AquaticLife T5/LED hybrid with 2 Ecotech XR15 G4 pros. That route may be a little more cheaper, but either way you can't go wrong. Giesemann lights r some of the best out there. I don't have a mixing station set up, I have a RO/DI 5 stage unit and just pull it out when I need to make water, I just keep two 33 gal Brute trash cans full of water.

As far as controllers vs manually testing, I think that you should manually test first, then if you like get a controller down the road. Doing manual test allow you to understand what the parameters are and how to change them if needed, it allows you to connect to the tank and understand why it may do something. With a controller you kind of loose that.

 

[GazS]

Welcome to r2r and the salt life!!

Thanks! excited to be here

Welcome to R2R!!! I think nothing else needs to be said, @jsker hit all the key points on the head. I agree, eventually you will upgrade the lights as I did, so that is one thing you don't want to budget. I personally have the AquaticLife T5/LED hybrid with 2 Ecotech XR15 G4 pros. That route may be a little more cheaper, but either way you can't go wrong. Giesemann lights r some of the best out there. I don't have a mixing station set up, I have a RO/DI 5 stage unit and just pull it out when I need to make water, I just keep to 33 gal Brute trash cans full of water.

As far as controllers vs manually testing, I think that you should manually test first, then if you like get a controller down the road. Doing manual test allow you to understand what the parameters are and how to change them if needed, it allows you to connect to the tank and understand why it may do something. With a controller you kind of loose that.

Thanks Billdg, i ordered the ro/di from the UK just now, will go to the local hardware store here in the Netherlands tomorrow and pick up some plumbing and containters :)

Good advice about the manual testers, ill def stick with that for now. Regarding filter, ill be running a skimmer, refugium and rock, think i should be adding any media reactors to begin with ?

 

[Billldg]

Thanks! excited to be here



Thanks Billdg, i ordered the ro/di from the UK just now, will go to the local hardware store here in the Netherlands tomorrow and pick up some plumbing and containters :)

Good advice about the manual testers, ill def stick with that for now. Regarding filter, ill be running a skimmer, refugium and rock, think i should be adding any media reactors to begin with ?

Initially, I wouldn't run a skimmer at the beginning, you really won't have any load on the tank for a little while, you can buy it, just don't use it yet until you start to add fish and put a load on the tank. You can buy a media reactor, but again, you won't need it for a while, I use a carbon reactor to keep my water clear, and every once and a while I will mix in some GFO to bring down phosphates, but you need to be careful with GFO as it can strip all phosphates out of the water. I only use some GFO because I just decided to use chaeto and it hasn't started to really grow yet, but that is a more natural way of keeping nitrates and phosphates down. It also helps to out compete bad algae and bacteria like Dino's. At the beginning I would just worry about getting the tank and plumbing together and get it wet, while the tank is cycling you can decide on the rest. The hardest thing I found about this hobby is having PATIENCE, something I lack, LOL, if you rush it only bad things can happen.

Ask all the question you want, that's what this forum is here for and we love to help fellow reefers out. In the end this hobby is very rewarding.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Welcome to .the best group in town. Or in you case the world.

Everyone already beat me and hit the key points.

Only thing I can add is manual water changes. I have a long hose that fits on a spare pump, and a brute or large bucket. My routine is day before water change grab the brute or bucket and get the ro/di into it and mix the salt. Make sure when ready to start your change that the salt is right onSG and temp. Then I take that long hose, start siphoning the water into my toilet. Once drained take that hose to the bucket, attach to pump, other end in tank and start pump. All done and hands are dry almost entire time.

Oh, and come again, glad your here

 

[Raege]

Welcome to R2R Redseas are nice tanks. Great advice above already Lookin forward to seeing your progress

 

[SuncrestReef]

Building a manifold at the beginning is easier than adding it to an established system. But as others have said, you won't necessarily need any reactors right away, so you could at least build the plumbing and then attach reactors later as needed.

If you want any ideas on manifold design, you'll find a lot of detailed photos in my Reefer XL 425 build thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/suncrestreefs-red-sea-reefer-xl-425-build.358990/

 

[Gonebad395]

Welcome to R2R glad you found us. Nice sounding build and you came to the right site for the info.

 

[Katrina71]

I personally think your lighting should be the best your budget will allow. You will never get reefers to agree on lights. It really is a personal preference among the better lights available. Lots of options. T5, LED, Metal Halide(making a comeback), and hybrids.

 

[RJinPV]

I started about 4 years ago with a 55 Gal tank. Here is what I learned:

Get quality now because you'll just wind up paying for stuff twice, or maybe three times. That goes especially for the lights, and to a lesser degree the circulation pumps. Make sure you have enough circulation

I second the advice from Mastiffsrule on water changes. Doing 10% weekly water changes gets old real fast if you have to carry 5 gal jugs and buckets through the house. Regular water changes and sand siphoning will be needed to keep the tank from going south. Most of my problems are due to neglecting these things and anything to make it easier is well worth it.

Consider your house temperature in the warm weather. If it gets above 80 deg F in the summer inside the house you will likely need a chiller. Consider that all of the submersible pumps dump heat into the water. It's like having a 100 watt heater on all the time. At least plan for a chiller in your tank placement. I put mine 1 inch too close to a wall and had to add an undersized chiller later on because space would not allow a proper sized chiller. Fans might work with a glass tank because it conducts heat better than my acrylic tank and will stay closer to room temperature

 

[Billldg]

.

 

[GazS]

Wow thanks everyone for your kind welcome and advice.

Building a manifold at the beginning is easier than adding it to an established system. But as others have said, you won't necessarily need any reactors right away, so you could at least build the plumbing and then attach reactors later as needed.

If you want any ideas on manifold design, you'll find a lot of detailed photos in my Reefer XL 425 build thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/suncrestreefs-red-sea-reefer-xl-425-build.358990/

Thank you for the link, i read all of the pages there and i will definitely use your manifold schematic as a baseline, thanks a lot :)

I started about 4 years ago with a 55 Gal tank. Here is what I learned:

Get quality now because you'll just wind up paying for stuff twice, or maybe three times. That goes especially for the lights, and to a lesser degree the circulation pumps. Make sure you have enough circulation

I second the advice from Mastiffsrule on water changes. Doing 10% weekly water changes gets old real fast if you have to carry 5 gal jugs and buckets through the house. Regular water changes and sand siphoning will be needed to keep the tank from going south. Most of my problems are due to neglecting these things and anything to make it easier is well worth it.

Consider your house temperature in the warm weather. If it gets above 80 deg F in the summer inside the house you will likely need a chiller. Consider that all of the submersible pumps dump heat into the water. It's like having a 100 watt heater on all the time. At least plan for a chiller in your tank placement. I put mine 1 inch too close to a wall and had to add an undersized chiller later on because space would not allow a proper sized chiller. Fans might work with a glass tank because it conducts heat better than my acrylic tank and will stay closer to room temperature

In the netherlands it rarely gets super hot, im debating getting a chiller just in case .. i was planning on point a massive fan at the tank if it did get up in the 90s but will definitely mull over your points, thanks !


I have narrowed down the build list to this first draft, im a bit taken aback by how hard it is to find suppliers in Europe so i think ill need to go and befriend the LFS(s) and get some advice on stock levels / suppliers.


Aquarium: RED SEA REEFER 425XL, https://www.coralandfishstore.nl/zeeaquarium/red-sea-aquarium/red-sea-reefer-425-xl-wit.html. EUR 1499

Light: Giesemann Aurora T5/LED, https://zeeaquarium-winkel.nl/giesemann-aurora-hybrid-4-x-54-watt-3-x-85w-led-1200-mm EUR 1249

Aquarium cover tank cover: https://www.coralandfishstore.nl/zeeaquarium/afdeknetten/red-sea-tank-net-screen-120x80-cm.html EUR 60

Return pump: Ecotech Marin Vectra m1, https://zeeaquarium-winkel.nl/ecotech-marin-vectra-m1 , EUR 399

Power heads : 2 x tunze nanostream 6055 , https://zeeaquarium-winkel.nl/tunze-nanostream-6055-regelbaar-1000-5500-l-u EUR 280

Protein skimmer: Nyos quantum 120, https://zeeaquarium-winkel.nl/nyos-quantum-120-eiwitafschuimer EUR 339

Submersible heaters : 2 x aqua medic titanium 300w, https://zeeaquarium-winkel.nl/aqua-medic-titanium-heater-300-w EUR 80

Thermometer / controller : Aqua medic controller , https://zeeaquarium-winkel.nl/aqua-medic-t-controller-twin EUR 60

Substrate: 8 x caribsea live sand, https://www.coralandfishstore.nl/aquarium-decoratie/koraalzand/caribsea-live-sand-01-1-mm-907kg.html EUR 260

Salt: red sea coral salt , https://www.coralandfishstore.nl/wa...sea-coral-pro-zout-22-kg-660-liter-emmer.html EUR 87

Live rock : live fiji rock (dead) 60kg , https://zeeaquarium-winkel.nl/fiji-skeleton-rock-ronde-stukken-dood-levend-steen EUR 300

ro/di : Ultra-Pure 4 Stage 50 Gallon Per Day RODI System with di resin inc, https://www.osmotics.co.uk/products/Ultra%2dPure-4-Stage-50-Gallon-Per-Day-RODI-System.html EUR 120

I appeciate any feedback you may have on my first draft, particularly on the power heads / amount and choice of live rock ... its hard to find here in netherlands / And the quantity of live sand :)

 

[PatW]

For the RODI, it does not cost much more to run a 6 stage. Mine has a sediment filter, a 5 micron carbon block, a 1 micro carbon block, a 75 gpd RO membrane (50 gallon is fine) and 2 DI resin canisters. I also have a manual flush for my RO membrane and a TDS tester after the RO membrane and one after the DI canisters. I flush the membrane thoroughly before running the system.

Having 2 DI canisters means I can fully deplete a canister before repacking it without compromising water quality. This way I do not waste the DI resin. The extra carbon block and sediment filter are cheap to replace so why not have them? The initial outlay is more expensive, but I think that the unit is cheaper to run. A word of advice, get the best RO membrane you can with the highest rejection rate. The DI resin is your most expensive supply.

 

[GazS]

For the RODI, it does not cost much more to run a 6 stage. Mine has a sediment filter, a 5 micron carbon block, a 1 micro carbon block, a 75 gpd RO membrane (50 gallon is fine) and 2 DI resin canisters. I also have a manual flush for my RO membrane and a TDS tester after the RO membrane and one after the DI canisters. I flush the membrane thoroughly before running the system.

Having 2 DI canisters means I can fully deplete a canister before repacking it without compromising water quality. This way I do not waste the DI resin. The extra carbon block and sediment filter are cheap to replace so why not have them? The initial outlay is more expensive, but I think that the unit is cheaper to run. A word of advice, get the best RO membrane you can with the highest rejection rate. The DI resin is your most expensive supply.

Thank you Pat, a good point. I contacted the supplier and asked if its possible to upgrade to https://www.osmotics.co.uk/products/6-Stage-100-Gallon-Per-Day-Reverse-Osmosis-System.html (I had already ordered the other RODI unit yesterday as its from the UK)