New Trident?

[thedon986]

nah... the reagents for Maven are going to be held by coralvue... which means no abcreagents, and no knowing how much its going to cost.

But i fully expect them to go on the Gillette model like how Neptune had it when they first released the trident.

But this is the nail that shuts the coffin for me on Maven.
I do not want to be litterally held at bay and at the mercy of a single company for reagents.

I think the story with ABC is they basically analyzed and reverse engineered the Neptune reagents. Don’t see why they couldn’t do the same with those.

 

[thedon986]

I took a look at this at Reefapalooza today. Just like the Trident but with Nitrate and phosphate. I don't feel like buying this and adding another 700$ . They should have did an all in one. Not a good thought process by Apex R&D team(Just my Opinion).

I think an all in one under their model would be nearly twice the size, anyways. Unless their reagents are just one each for N and P, there will be four additional bottles plus four more pinch valves and a complex manifold. Im more disappointed in the price for what most see as an optional set of parameters to automate. That price just doesn’t equate with the need IMO.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

nah... the reagents for Maven are going to be held by coralvue... which means no abcreagents, and no knowing how much its going to cost.

But i fully expect them to go on the Gillette model like how Neptune had it when they first released the trident.

But this is the nail that shuts the coffin for me on Maven.
I do not want to be litterally held at bay and at the mercy of a single company for reagents.

Good point.

I think the story with ABC is they basically analyzed and reverse engineered the Neptune reagents. Don’t see why they couldn’t do the same with those.

One thing I caught from a video I watched on maven was that they worked closely with the creators of the KH Guardian.

If anyone is familiar with that tester. They forced users to use their reagents even though all it required was an acid (sulfuric) for the test. They were able to detect a DIY reagent and then brick the unit. Forcing the owner to send it in to have it unlocked.

Given the events that unfolded for Neptune with ABC reagents, it wouldn't be far fetched that Maven would have some sort of generic reagent detection that would render the unit worthless.

I personally don't think that should be the path that any company should go down. In fact, if you think about it from a marketing perspective, if they price their reagents accordingly, then they don't need to worry about competition from folks like ABC.

What bit Neptune in the rear wasn't them creating a "subscription" based tester. It was that they made it enticing for someone to reverse engineer the reagent.

Hopefully the most persuasive person in the meetings for Maven wasn't the one who thinks bricking the unit if generic reagents are used is a good idea. That won't go over well in the long run.

 

[xtianGEO]

They have been posting teaser videos on their facebook like children. Its frustrating more people than it is amping up.

This looks like the nitrate and phosphate version of the trident. Meanwhile coralvue just announced the Maven which will test all 5. That is an Apex killer.

I have the x10, based on that Maven will likely be DOA

 

[apb03]

Good point.


One thing I caught from a video I watched on maven was that they worked closely with the creators of the KH Guardian.

If anyone is familiar with that tester. They forced users to use their reagents even though all it required was an acid (sulfuric) for the test. They were able to detect a DIY reagent and then brick the unit. Forcing the owner to send it in to have it unlocked.

Given the events that unfolded for Neptune with ABC reagents, it wouldn't be far fetched that Maven would have some sort of generic reagent detection that would render the unit worthless.

I personally don't think that should be the path that any company should go down. In fact, if you think about it from a marketing perspective, if they price their reagents accordingly, then they don't need to worry about competition from folks like ABC.

What bit Neptune in the rear wasn't them creating a "subscription" based tester. It was that they made it enticing for someone to reverse engineer the reagent.

Hopefully the most persuasive person in the meetings for Maven wasn't the one who thinks bricking the unit if generic reagents are used is a good idea. That won't go over well in the long run.

I certainly hope they don't take that approach as well. So far we have no evidence to assume they will but that's a valid concern, for sure.

Given that they have clearly informed us that the test frequency can be controlled independently for each of the parameters, I would submit that's evidence of focusing on the customer and not selling more reagents, but we'll see how it goes.

I think forcing Calcium and Mag testing at the same frequency as Alk probably didn't help Neptune's cause much.

 

[SimbaAnto]

I think an all in one under their model would be nearly twice the size, anyways. Unless their reagents are just one each for N and P, there will be four additional bottles plus four more pinch valves and a complex manifold. Im more disappointed in the price for what most see as an optional set of parameters to automate. That price just doesn’t equate with the need IMO.

Agreed , if it was at $250 , would have given a thought. But at $700 it's DOA. With all the reagent cost and space it's a strict NO NO.

 

[buruskeee]

Agreed , if it was at $250 , would have given a thought. But at $700 it's DOA. With all the reagent cost and space it's a strict NO NO.

Why is everyone speculating it to cost the same as the 3 tester Trident? If anything, my guess is it’ll cost either 2/3 or 75% of the original trident since it’s 2 parameters vs 3 - so around $400-550. That’s my guess.

 

[thedon986]

Why is everyone speculating it to cost the same as the 3 tester Trident? If anything, my guess is it’ll cost either 2/3 or 75% of the original trident since it’s 2 parameters vs 3 - so around $400-550. That’s my guess.

Because the link to the store posted last page shows pre orders going for $749 for the Trident NP. Your line of thinking would be logical…but Neptune is counting on people not caring about the price I guess.

 

[TARHEEL78]

Because the link to the store posted last page shows pre orders going for $749 for the Trident NP. Your line of thinking would be logical…but Neptune is counting on people not caring about the price I guess.

One store that I'd guess most people have never heard of that also sells other Apex items for more than anyone else has a pre-order listed for that price. That doesn't mean it's going to be the price for it anywhere else.

 

[thedon986]

One store that I'd guess most people have never heard of that also sells other Apex items for more than anyone else has a pre-order listed for that price. That doesn't mean it's going to be the price for it anywhere else.

Maybe the store has gone rogue. They also have the DOS QD for preorder at $399 (lol). I would love to be wrong but it sounds like the price Neptune would go for. You think Neptune would price it lower than the last Trident out of good will? That doesn’t sound very Neptune at all, especially since they are now under a big conglomerate umbrella. Their objective is to get as much money out of your pocket as possible.

 

[TARHEEL78]

Maybe the store has gone rogue. They also have the DOS QD for preorder at $399 (lol). I would love to be wrong but it sounds like the price Neptune would go for. You think Neptune would price it lower than the last Trident out of good will? That doesn’t sound very Neptune at all, especially since they are now under a big conglomerate umbrella. Their objective is to get as much money out of your pocket as possible.

I don't understand your point. The old Trident isn't $749 either.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Why is everyone speculating it to cost the same as the 3 tester Trident? If anything, my guess is it’ll cost either 2/3 or 75% of the original trident since it’s 2 parameters vs 3 - so around $400-550. That’s my guess.

Because as far as we can tell it’s basically the same hardware with some updated software programming to run different tests and swapped out reagent bottles…

 

[thedon986]

I don't understand your point. The old Trident isn't $749 either.

I’m saying $749 sounds right to me because 1) it’s new, they had to “rework” and change things and they can always say inflation

I hope I’m wrong

 

[Reefer Matt]

On second thought, I won’t be wasting $700+ on a product that only needs to be used once a week. Plus, I just looked in my sump area, and there is definitely not enough room for another full sized trident. Hanna checkers will do just fine in my case. Bummer.

 

[areefer01]

Does anyone know if the maven is anything other than vaporwear at this point? Are those that are going to RAP just going to see a 'shoddy casing full of used pinball machine parts'? A demonstration that is just good enough to fool the unsuspecting hobbyists?

There was a post here whereas someone at RAP asked VC and they said think along the time line of "Black Friday". Who knows what that means or if it is true or just a mind story.

I apologize for repeating it. I don't believe it is vaporwear though.

I'm curious if the announcement is just a simple play at trying to tamp down the news of the new trident release? And if true, what's even more scary is that in true fashion (with everything in our hobby) they will rush to bring maven to market with nothing but problems attached to it.

If you and I take the high road it was just timing. On the other hand one could argue that a hand was forced. Which hand that was is speculation.

I'll stay in my own lane.

I guess time will tell...

Hope your day is going well.

 

[areefer01]

I took a look at this at Reefapalooza today. Just like the Trident but with Nitrate and phosphate. I don't feel like buying this and adding another 700$ . They should have did an all in one. Not a good thought process by Apex R&D team(Just my Opinion).

Price is speculation. Maybe some guesses will be right, maybe not - we'll see. I wouldn't get caught up on it until it is official.

Regarding all in one. Glass half full, empty. There is already a Trident installation base. If they created an all in one that leaves that population out. Making it an add on and option makes sense as some may not care about their phosphate numbers. You can choose which set you want. Traditional, N&P, or both. Up to the hobbyist as both work independently.

I understand the space concern. Valid. Kamore and Maven on the surface present a neat container. That is until you look at the reagent lines and bottles. Then you have a potential mess on your hands. Cable management is always done with good intentions.

There is a lot of hoopla around these automation testers. Just need to weed through the noise, bias, market speak, and made a decision if it is right for you. Whatever that choice is.

 

[SimbaAnto]

Why is everyone speculating it to cost the same as the 3 tester Trident? If anything, my guess is it’ll cost either 2/3 or 75% of the original trident since it’s 2 parameters vs 3 - so around $400-550. That’s my guess.

I did check with Neptune in Reefapalooza. It's about $650 ish.

 

[SimbaAnto]

Price is speculation. Maybe some guesses will be right, maybe not - we'll see. I wouldn't get caught up on it until it is official.

Regarding all in one. Glass half full, empty. There is already a Trident installation base. If they created an all in one that leaves that population out. Making it an add on and option makes sense as some may not care about their phosphate numbers. You can choose which set you want. Traditional, N&P, or both. Up to the hobbyist as both work independently.

I understand the space concern. Valid. Kamore and Maven on the surface present a neat container. That is until you look at the reagent lines and bottles. Then you have a potential mess on your hands. Cable management is always done with good intentions.

There is a lot of hoopla around these automation testers. Just need to weed through the noise, bias, market speak, and made a decision if it is right for you. Whatever that choice is.

I agree to your point as it's an addon people can choose to get or not and that where the problem is . Why should we add another $650+ for an addon. If it's $250 yes would have got it. But not for $650+ . Rather I would put the same to buy mastertronics or Maven.

I asked if the price is going to be half or not in the Reefapalooza yesterday. But they said no its going to in the same range as classic Trident.

 

[ca1ore]

A few ‘facts’ …..

1. Trident NP preorder is $749. I suppose they could adjust the pricing, but that seems unlikely.
Will be interesting to see how well it sells. Let’s see how quickly the big vendors have it as ‘out of stock’.
2. Doubt that Maven is an Apex killer. If I had a dime for every time somebody has posted something like that ….
3. Unless somebody is about to buy a new controller, the sunk cost for an apex system means there aren’t likely to be a lot of switchers. Certainly not for an ability to test for N or P. It’s a nice to have, but hardly essential.

 

[buruskeee]

A few ‘facts’ …..

1. Trident NP preorder is $749. I suppose they could adjust the pricing, but that seems unlikely.

So it will be MORE than the more important Trident? I doubt that. If it is then it will be DOA. Rumor is “original Trident range”, so I’m still going to guess about $550, which isn’t too bad IMO. At $650-$700 (original Trident cost), it would be a hard pass for me (and probably most people).