New Trident?

[ca1ore]

I think there's a lot to unpack with this statement. Although probably mentioned as a slight to hydros, I think there's a lot of truth to it.

As with all things, folks are free to interpret my comment as they wish. If some take offense, so be it. My point was more that experienced reefers (longer tenured) are more like to have already invested in a controller platform. Given the relative age/duration of availability of the options, that platform is mostly apex, with some profilux tossed in for good measure. My contention is that once somebody has a sizable sunk cost in one or the other, tossing the lot and starting fresh with hydros is not something I would think a lot of folks would do. I suppose you’d have to be at your wits end with apex to do that … or enjoy selling off stuff for cents on the dollar.

For me personally, with something approaching 20 modules, I would not do it. I have had my grouses with apex, including a recent total A2Pro failure. BUT, I have never set mine up so that a major failure would crash my tank. Inconvenient …. yes, absolutely; but fatal ….no! If you’ve got a complex system, make sure you have backups. Of course, no controller is essential. I’d been keeping reef tanks for over 20 years before buying the classic iteration of apex in 2013.

I have also found apex support to be excellent. You just have to call them rather than doing the web form if it is something urgent. I can almost always get somebody to talk to within a few minutes.

 

[braaap]

I really don't get the Neptune hate at all.

In the ~10 years I've been using Apex products, I've had only a handful of RMAs. Most of them were fixed for free or a small, reasonable fee.

In fact, the last time I sent them something to repair it was an 8 year old DOS with a motor problem.... they fixed/replaced it and returned it at no charge.

They fired their head of sales after their system burned down his tank and his front entry way of his 2-3 million dollar home.

I’ve been using their systems since day one. 25 years ago. I had an original aquacontroller. Where they fell off is with the 2016 version of Apex. Low quality junk. And it continues.

My last issue with customer service I had a EB832 with catastrophic failure. So bad it should have burned my house down. No fault of my own. Complete engineering disaster on their side. All copper traces completely burned out of the PCB. They didn’t care. They offered me a new one for $165 plus shipping. So gracious of them right?

 

[areefer01]

They fired their head of sales after their system burned down his tank and his front entry way of his 2-3 million dollar home.

This is an absurd statement to make. Uncool.

 

[braaap]

This is an absurd statement to make. Uncool.

Turns out I got the timeframe wrong. His tank burned down shortly after they fired him. Either way I know his departure wasn't mutual. He was the one person who truly cared about the community.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Turns out I got the timeframe wrong. His tank burned down shortly after they fired him. Either way I know his departure wasn't mutual. He was the one person who truly cared about the community.

I'm glad you made this correction.

I'm sure he was part of the toxicity that most people used the "hate" word for. For me he didn't help the brand.

Being part of the Aqua Controller era, I can't say that nostalgia clouds my recollection. I definitely prefer the Apex/fusion over that version.

There is plenty to tilt your head over, and perhaps people don't like certain choices they make. I know I certainly don't. But I tend to agree with ca1ore. Even with my love/hate relationship with the brand, the user interface allows me to do pretty much anything I want with it and I'm not willing to throw that all away for a promise of something different or better.

It will be interesting to see how new hobbyists approach the same delimma when they buy into the hydros ecosystem and then become seasoned and want to step out of the cookie cutter way of controlling a tank. Will they make due? Will hydros pivot and offer advanced control? Will they sell off the hydros for something more versatile?

 

[braaap]

I'm glad you made this correction.

I'm sure he was part of the toxicity that most people used the "hate" word for. For me he didn't help the brand.

Being part of the Aqua Controller era, I can't say that nostalgia clouds my recollection. I definitely prefer the Apex/fusion over that version.

There is plenty to tilt your head over, and perhaps people don't like certain choices they make. I know I certainly don't. But I tend to agree with ca1ore. Even with my love/hate relationship with the brand, the user interface allows me to do pretty much anything I want with it and I'm not willing to throw that all away for a promise of something different or better.

It will be interesting to see how new hobbyists approach the same delimma when they buy into the hydros ecosystem and then become seasoned and want to step out of the cookie cutter way of controlling a tank. Will they make do? Will hydros pivot and offer advanced control? Will they sell off the hydros for something more versatile?

The difference between the aquacontroller era and the current era is the aquacontroller era was actually a quality product. The 2016 Apex uses a usb wifi dongle. 50 cents. They couldn’t even invest in an actual wifi chip. The WiFi is the main complaint of these systems. It causes the most issues. The poorly designed eb832 is also a major concern.


I think Terence while smug and “my **** doesn’t stink” actually listened to the community. He offered suggestions. Took what people wanted to the team. He improved the product. That’s not happening anymore.

 

[apb03]

I'm glad you made this correction.

I'm sure he was part of the toxicity that most people used the "hate" word for. For me he didn't help the brand.

Being part of the Aqua Controller era, I can't say that nostalgia clouds my recollection. I definitely prefer the Apex/fusion over that version.

There is plenty to tilt your head over, and perhaps people don't like certain choices they make. I know I certainly don't. But I tend to agree with ca1ore. Even with my love/hate relationship with the brand, the user interface allows me to do pretty much anything I want with it and I'm not willing to throw that all away for a promise of something different or better.

It will be interesting to see how new hobbyists approach the same delimma when they buy into the hydros ecosystem and then become seasoned and want to step out of the cookie cutter way of controlling a tank. Will they make due? Will hydros pivot and offer advanced control? Will they sell off the hydros for something more versatile?

I would love to hear more about this since I've seen it mentioned a few times. What is it about hydros that is cookie cutter that apex is not?

Is it the ability to write condition statements?

 

[Stevorino]

I think Terence while smug and “my **** doesn’t stink” actually listened to the community. He offered suggestions. Took what people wanted to the team. He improved the product. That’s not happening anymore.

Terence... is that you?

 

[Doctorgori]

I’ve been around since the black stuff pre fusion days and those power bars were tanks, OTOH they have also issued a few duds like the v1 optical switches and the 1” flow sensors are pretty sketchy also..
I’ll stick with them if for no other reason than one less phone app … waiting for the NP Trident

 

[SpyC]

I would love to hear more about this since I've seen it mentioned a few times. What is it about hydros that is cookie cutter that apex is not?

Is it the ability to write condition statements?

From my research when getting back into the hobby, I think the cookie cutter difference is apex allows you to write 'code' while the hydros is essentially all predetermined and you just select actions based on the I/O responses/statuses

 

[ca1ore]

I’ve been around since the black stuff pre fusion days and those power bars were tanks, OTOH they have also issued a few duds like the v1 optical switches and the 1” flow sensors are pretty sketchy also..
I’ll stick with them if for no other reason than one less phone app … waiting for the NP Trident

Yes indeed. All my v1 optical switches failed and my tank rarely runs without one of the 1” flow meters reading zero.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

The difference between the aquacontroller era and the current era is the aquacontroller era was actually a quality product.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree with you 100%.

I still have 4 or 5 dc8s. I remember when converting over from apex classic to apex 2016, I was shocked that all my dc8s couldn't be integrated.

I didn't know that Russ became employed by NS at that point and tried to convince him, that if anyone could integrate the dc8s it would be him. Haha

 

[apb03]

From my research when getting back into the hobby, I think the cookie cutter difference is apex allows you to write 'code' while the hydros is essentially all predetermined and you just select actions based on the I/O responses/statuses

If you need your users to write code to do a task in 2024 you've messed up bad. Hot take I know.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

If you need your users to write code to do a task in 2024 you've messed up bad. Hot take I know.

It's not writing code unless you want to. The wizard in fusion can do the cookie cutter stuff as well and some moderate tasks.

They beauty of fusion is that you have the best of both worlds. You can create complex tasks or simply rely on the the wizard.

 

[William Chiavetta]

They have been posting teaser videos on their facebook like children. Its frustrating more people than it is amping up.

This looks like the nitrate and phosphate version of the trident. Meanwhile coralvue just announced the Maven which will test all 5. That is an Apex killer.

do you have any idea how much the maven will be

 

[braaap]

If you need your users to write code to do a task in 2024 you've messed up bad. Hot take I know.

Not really. I've seen plenty of people with a hydros say they can't get the fine control that they could with an Apex because the system is so dumbed down. In my research it seemed to be true. Now I have no experience with a hydros so I can't say for certain if that is a fact.

Apex isn't hard to program. They have the menu system like hydros touts. But if you want very detailed control you switch it to advanced.

 

[braaap]

do you have any idea how much the maven will be

They said $1200 or less. So likely $1200 for sure.

 

[William Chiavetta]

They said $1200 or less. So likely $1200 for sure.

alright then this is a discussion I should leave

 

[braaap]

Thanks for clarifying. I agree with you 100%.

I still have 4 or 5 dc8s. I remember when converting over from apex classic to apex 2016, I was shocked that all my dc8s couldn't be integrated.

I didn't know that Russ became employed by NS at that point and tried to convince him, that if anyone could integrate the dc8s it would be him. Haha

Same. I still have a DC4 HD on my water mixing station using an Apex Full for the head unit. That thing works. Never disconnects. No issues. Meanwhile my A2 disconnects or crashes at a minimum of 3 times a day.

 

[braaap]

alright then this is a discussion I should leave

haha I don't blame you. BUT the Maven is a controller and a tester in one. All you need is some wifi power strips and you have a full blown controller.