New YouTube Video BRStv Investigates-Reef-A-Palooza NY 2022 Presentation

[HuduVudu]

to prevent pests from entering as much as possible

My take was to limit the pest numbers so the predators could get up to speed. The cost of pods for me was illuminating. He noted an ounce of prevention was worth a pound of cure.

 

[HuduVudu]

BUT - I don't understand the rationale of being 'negative' about it - in reality - over time - a NSA tank is going to be filled anyway - with coral colonies - which is what everyone's (at least everyone that has corals) goal, right?

I think the problem is that he goal is never realized. People can't get the fill in with the coral and even if they can it isn't going to be quick. In the mean time they have loaded the tank with fish who are now suffering from the effects of the NSA.

I am no fan of the Wall of Boulders it is asthetically ugly but for me it is far better to have beautiful fish and a wall of boulders than sick fish and a NSA.

 

[HuduVudu]

I absolutely loved Ryan's point about fix one problem only to have another worse problem pop up. This is an unbelievably awesome point. It is also why I don't think straight chemical fixes work. It is really tough as an aquarist to make considered light touch changes to the tank. Just adding Additive X is going to bring other changes and I think Newton says is correctly "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".

You aren't dosing just calcium, you aren't killing just dinos. We have to wrap our heads around that.

 

[HuduVudu]

Ranting ....

Imagine if we approached fish disease like this. How many creatures could we save? How many people would have real pets that they could love?

 

[atoll]

I think the problem is that he goal is never realized. People can't get the fill in with the coral and even if they can it isn't going to be quick. In the mean time they have loaded the tank with fish who are now suffering from the effects of the NSA.

I am no fan of the Wall of Boulders it is asthetically ugly but for me it is far better to have beautiful fish and a wall of boulders than sick fish and a NSA.

But it dosentneed to be a wall of borders to include plenty of rock..
IMO you can have plenty of rock and provide a nice enough reefscape with plenty of bolt holes, overhangs and caves. I do agree that most will have plenty of fish before a tank becomes fully mature with large corals esp SPS which will take some years using frags in particular.
For me the thing to do is start with a plan on what you intend to keep and proceed along those lines perhaps tweaking here and there.

 

[HuduVudu]

But it dosentneed to be a wall of borders to include plenty of rock..
IMO you can have plenty of rock and provide a nice enough reefscape with plenty of bolt holes, overhangs and caves. I do agree that most will have plenty of fish before a tank becomes fully mature with large corals esp SPS which will take some years using frags in particular.
For me the thing to do is start with a plan on what you intend to keep and proceed along those lines perhaps tweaking here and there.

I was just playing the extremes.

TBF it was the Fiji Premium the brought wall of boulders.

It is hard to relate to new people how having patience and considering your next move is one of the most important skills you must posess as a aquarist. I guess they will just have to learn that the hard way like we did.

 

[atoll]

I was just playing the extremes.

TBF it was the Fiji Premium the brought wall of boulders.

It is hard to relate to new people how having patience and considering your next move is one of the most important skills you must posess as a aquarist. I guess they will just have to learn that the hard way like we did.

And didn't we just that

 

[ying yang]

Always difficult as there are so many sponges etc in the ocean.
I wouldn't be concerned. Removing it might cause more problems than leaving it be. Some sponges can release toxins if you start cutting and scraping them but do no harm if left alone.

Ok thanks ,will leave alone incase are sponges

 

[MnFish1]

@MnFish1
Sorry CANT simply buy antibiotics in the UK.

I know - I said I'm not a fan of antibiotics in a tank

 

[MnFish1]

I think the problem is that he goal is never realized. People can't get the fill in with the coral and even if they can it isn't going to be quick. In the mean time they have loaded the tank with fish who are now suffering from the effects of the NSA.

I am no fan of the Wall of Boulders it is asthetically ugly but for me it is far better to have beautiful fish and a wall of boulders than sick fish and a NSA.

I tend to never buy frags - i.e. the tiny ones - I tend to buy larger corals to start - to try to cover as much real-estate as possible. I've found that if you ask for multiple large corals you can often get a nice discount. Then again - I'm not one to buy John Doe's Pink Panther Blossom frag either)

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I’m diggin this thread. I wanted to have an open discussion like this in another, but it didn’t necessarily go that way. I didn’t see this thread until just a minute ago, I read it all and need a break for the time being, but wanted to thank you all for your opinions and experiences shared here. I love it when open dialogue can be achieved without madness….I hope I didn’t jinx it.

 

[sixty_reefer]

They literally showed pods eating dinos and you could see the dino in the stomach of the pod

He also said that amphipods will eat nuisance algaes, just because something will eat something doesn’t mean that it is the solution, I’ve seen it mentioning that was effective against diatoms, how effective is still to be seen, diatoms tend to go away on its own, how effective is against dinoflagellates, some dinoflagellates go away on its own once the nutrients get back to detectable levels. How can we be sure that it weren’t the nutrients that removed the issue. It will be interesting to see people buying copepod by the palette with no results to show for

 

[MnFish1]

Ranting ....

Imagine if we approached fish disease like this. How many creatures could we save? How many people would have real pets that they could love?

About 50% would have success give or take with this approach - about 50% would have dead fish in the US (as compared possibly to Europe). But - it is interesting - I had the same thought (I think) - that the next interesting study would relate to QT. Since they already have the tanks - and apparent access to clowns. It was also interesting that he did not mention whether BRS does or does not QT their fish - since he was recommending various coral dips. I'd be interesting to hear what @Lasse has to say.

 

[MnFish1]

He also said that amphipods will eat nuisance algaes, just because something will eat something doesn’t mean that it is the solution although will be interesting to see people buying copepod by the palette with no results to show for

One issue that was missing from the summary which I think you're getting at - a little - is there was no mention of the nutrient levels in the different tanks. Especially since they are (as mentioned in the video) - removing sludge, etc - which is also removing nutrients (or preventing nutrients from rising as much). My take away was this method may work great in a new tank - I'm not sure how it would work in a large tank - with a huge algae issue - and a larger bioload (the bioload from the 2 small clowns is likely 'not much')

 

[sixty_reefer]

One issue that was missing from the summary which I think you're getting at - a little - is there was no mention of the nutrient levels in the different tanks. Especially since they are (as mentioned in the video) - removing sludge, etc - which is also removing nutrients (or preventing nutrients from rising as much). My take away was this method may work great in a new tank - I'm not sure how it would work in a large tank - with a huge algae issue - and a larger bioload (the bioload from the 2 small clowns is likely 'not much')

It’s not just the nutrients is the hole process one of the things that is bothering me a lot is that they went around and Collect Cyanobacteria, dinoflagellates and other nuisances mixed all together and went around and distributed it trough all the tanks.
some developed issues some don’t. Stable tanks often can burn this nuisances on their own, I’ve done it in the past with dinoflagellates introduction from frags and rocks full of Cyanobacteria, this nuisances tent to die in well stablished systems.
attributing the results to “pods” is just being optimistic, in the same system we’re I introduced Cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates successfully everything gone really bad once nutrients got depleted and it took a few good months to get it out of it.
in my opinion pods won’t be doing me any beneficial outcome if nutrients are unstable or depleted.

 

[HuduVudu]

He also said that amphipods will eat nuisance algaes, just because something will eat something doesn’t mean that it is the solution, I’ve seen it mentioning that was effective against diatoms, how effective is still to be seen, diatoms tend to go away on its own, how effective is against dinoflagellates, some dinoflagellates go away on its own once the nutrients get back to detectable levels. How can we be sure that it weren’t the nutrients that removed the issue. It will be interesting to see people buying copepod by the palette with no results to show for

So my experience is very similar to Ryans. I would see the light green spots that spread and then the algae colonies would crash. I didn't know what those spots where from but now I do. I have seen this happen over and over again in tanks that I have started. Ryans experience coincides with mine.

It is also my experience that nutrients are really irrelavant. My nitrates crash on my established tanks all the time. I really don't think nutrients even play a role. This has been my experience over and over again.

I would be willing to wager that the copepods correct the algaes he mentions 100% of the time. Cyano is different beast altogether, but it has it's own achilles heal.

Also my amphipod populations are insane. I had to get sand sifters to get them down. You can see the amphipods eating the algae. Everytime we have to clean the pump intakes there they are. My fish (butterflies) love them btw and hunt for them constantly.

 

[HuduVudu]

One issue that was missing from the summary which I think you're getting at - a little - is there was no mention of the nutrient levels in the different tanks. Especially since they are (as mentioned in the video) - removing sludge, etc - which is also removing nutrients (or preventing nutrients from rising as much). My take away was this method may work great in a new tank - I'm not sure how it would work in a large tank - with a huge algae issue - and a larger bioload (the bioload from the 2 small clowns is likely 'not much')

If you look at the nutrient issue from the perspective of a food web. You will see that the nutrients are constantly being recycled. First up the chain and then back down. If the nutrients get pushed into the copepods and or amphipods etc ... then the nutrients are stored there. If one of those creatures dies then back down the chain. If the pod is eaten then up the chain. This movement through the chain of nutrients means that if you have sinks like chaeto or macro or mangrove then you export at those levels. Always the nutrients are stirring around. The anearobic cuts the nitrate back to nitrogen and you get alk back. The alk maybe gets consumed maybe it sinks here. It is like a bus system and there waypoints where the nutrients can get off.

If you approach it this way then you start paying attention to the bus stops and stop paying attention to the people on the buses.

 

[HuduVudu]

in my opinion pods won’t be doing me any beneficial outcome if nutrients are unstable or depleted.

I think his experiment was more targeted toward that tween time when the reef first starts and the beginings of maturation. This is where a lot of people get stuck and give up. Pods are helpful and since so many are dead set against live rock, why not give them an option to get at least a more ecologically balanced tank. Maybe this just delays the inevitable of someone learning the real meaning of diversity, but Ryans explaination gives something for the unintiated to chomp on.

It is to easy to fall into the pill trap and aquariums are no different. Watching people that couldn't make it through elementary biology try to deal with medicating and sickness is just sad. They know they are in over their head they know that they are likely to fail but they want desperately for nemo not to die because they love their little fish. Sadly they are also too stubborn to understand and look at all of the angles and even when it becomes painfully apparent that what they are doing isn't working they just yell at some anonymous person online and hope that this gives them the courage to do what they know they can't.

What Ryan said might give people the idea that there is another way. I know that there was a book that finally turned me around after many many years of failure;

Natural Reef Aquariums by John Tullock.


Every generation needs something like this to get them in the right direction. This book for me now doesn't go far enough but it got me on a path that would eventually work. I think that Ryan's video does what this book does in spades.

 

[sixty_reefer]

So my experience is very similar to Ryans. I would see the light green spots that spread and then the algae colonies would crash. I didn't know what those spots where from but now I do. I have seen this happen over and over again in tanks that I have started. Ryans experience coincides with mine.

It is also my experience that nutrients are really irrelavant. My nitrates crash on my established tanks all the time. I really don't think nutrients even play a role. This has been my experience over and over again.

I would be willing to wager that the copepods correct the algaes he mentions 100% of the time. Cyano is different beast altogether, but it has it's own achilles heal.

Also my amphipod populations are insane. I had to get sand sifters to get them down. You can see the amphipods eating the algae. Everytime we have to clean the pump intakes there they are. My fish (butterflies) love them btw and hunt for them constantly.

I agree that everything has a predator probably why some ecosystem work and others don’t, some times is just lack of predators for the invasive species. Cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates are well studied and if copepod were to be the solution marine biologist should observe blooms of copepod once one or the other bloom in the wild, that don’t seem to be the case I believe for this species.

 

[MnFish1]

So my experience is very similar to Ryans. I would see the light green spots that spread and then the algae colonies would crash. I didn't know what those spots where from but now I do. I have seen this happen over and over again in tanks that I have started. Ryans experience coincides with mine.

It is also my experience that nutrients are really irrelavant. My nitrates crash on my established tanks all the time. I really don't think nutrients even play a role. This has been my experience over and over again.

I would be willing to wager that the copepods correct the algaes he mentions 100% of the time. Cyano is different beast altogether, but it has it's own achilles heal.

Also my amphipod populations are insane. I had to get sand sifters to get them down. You can see the amphipods eating the algae. Everytime we have to clean the pump intakes there they are. My fish (butterflies) love them btw and hunt for them constantly.

Mine is not - I just used chemiclean - in a prep for restarting my tank. because (posted before) - there was a disaster. IMHO the key message from the video is 'there is no one answer' - and this video was designed to help new reefers. Not someone dealing with some issue maybe I'm wrong maybe Ryan - except we don't know his username here can explain