New YouTube Video BRStv Investigates-Reef-A-Palooza NY 2022 Presentation

[MnFish1]

IMHO - as I fill my 200 gallon discus tank- this is not groundbreaking for the most part

 

[sixty_reefer]

I can’t seem to find the actual test on BRS, does anyone got the link to it?
There’s a video coming next Friday is this just the build up to the video?

 

[MnFish1]

If you look at the nutrient issue from the perspective of a food web. You will see that the nutrients are constantly being recycled. First up the chain and then back down. If the nutrients get pushed into the copepods and or amphipods etc ... then the nutrients are stored there. If one of those creatures dies then back down the chain. If the pod is eaten then up the chain. This movement through the chain of nutrients means that if you have sinks like chaeto or macro or mangrove then you export at those levels. Always the nutrients are stirring around. The anearobic cuts the nitrate back to nitrogen and you get alk back. The alk maybe gets consumed maybe it sinks here. It is like a bus system and there waypoints where the nutrients can get off.

If you approach it this way then you start paying attention to the bus stops and stop paying attention to the people on the buses.

No I'm looking at it from listening to someone recommending something. I'm hopeful that they checked those levels. In at least one video they said - we sucked a bunch of sludge off the rocks. Ok - what if they had not (my assumption - more nutrients) . What happened in the the other tanks - with nutrients - if not answer - IMHO - no conclusion

 

[HuduVudu]

I agree that everything has a predator probably why some ecosystem work and others don’t, some times is just lack of predators for the invasive species. Cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates are well studied and if copepod were to be the solution marine biologist should observe blooms of copepod once one or the other bloom in the wild, that don’t seem to be the case I believe for this species.

Copepods eat Dinos. Cyano not so much. Ryan talks about this in the video.

I have DInos in my system and they are not plague. I also have cyano, dito. Dinos are definitely nasty because of the toxin. My snails and urchins avoid them. Not sure what is keeping them in check I have copepods and amphipods in my system. Also my cyano is pretty mild. IME cyano flares up in the heat. Even with my tank pushing into 85 the cyano is mild. This with a light pushing 8k. Something is there.

I really think that Ryan is onto something in this video.

One other point is that I have been dosing phyto for quite some time. Perhaps there are other algaes predators in that. But the main point remains competition.

 

[ying yang]

Mine is not - I just used chemiclean - in a prep for restarting my tank. because (posted before) - there was a disaster. IMHO the key message from the video is 'there is no one answer' - and this video was designed to help new reefers. Not someone dealing with some issue maybe I'm wrong maybe Ryan - except we don't know his username here can explain

If you mean Ryan from brs his tag is @Ryanbrs but says not been online since 2020 unless he got another account idk.
If mean another Ryan disregard lol

 

[MnFish1]

If you look at the nutrient issue from the perspective of a food web. You will see that the nutrients are constantly being recycled. First up the chain and then back down. If the nutrients get pushed into the copepods and or amphipods etc ... then the nutrients are stored there. If one of those creatures dies then back down the chain. If the pod is eaten then up the chain. This movement through the chain of nutrients means that if you have sinks like chaeto or macro or mangrove then you export at those levels. Always the nutrients are stirring around. The anearobic cuts the nitrate back to nitrogen and you get alk back. The alk maybe gets consumed maybe it sinks here. It is like a bus system and there waypoints where the nutrients can get off.

If you approach it this way then you start paying attention to the bus stops and stop paying attention to the people on the buses.

OK I'm not the best at these analogies. But IMHO what you're saying does not make sense. first because neither of us know what happened in that particular aquarium. Second - because see # 1. There were multiple aquariums in the experiment. They did a great job trying to prove what they wanted to prove - However the things they seemed to want to prove were related to new tanks/cycling.

 

[MnFish1]

Copepods eat Dinos. Cyano not so much. Ryan talks about this in the video.

I have DInos in my system and they are not plague. I also have cyano, dito. Dinos are definitely nasty because of the toxin. My snails and urchins avoid them. Not sure what is keeping them in check I have copepods and amphipods in my system. Also my cyano is pretty mild. IME cyano flares up in the heat. Even with my tank pushing into 85 the cyano is mild. This with a light pushing 8k. Something is there.

I really think that Ryan is onto something in this video.

One other point is that I have been dosing phyto for quite some time. Perhaps there are other algaes predators in that. But the main point remains competition.

I do too - but without nutrient levels we're back at square 1 to a degree - unless

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I can’t seem to find the actual test on BRS, does anyone got the link to it?
There’s a video coming next Friday is this just the build up to the video?

Yes, he said at the very beginning that there is a 10 part series coming out. This series took 6 months to film. But judging from your comments @sixty_reefer, it seems ( I know it’s a long video) you seemed to watch the cliff notes version. Try not to get so caught up in the words, but the ideas, someone is trying to put forth. It is the way of thinking, not how many copepods one puts in the tank that sparks change.

 

[HuduVudu]

No I'm looking at it from listening to someone recommending something. I'm hopeful that they checked those levels. In at least one video they said - we sucked a bunch of sludge off the rocks. Ok - what if they had not (my assumption - more nutrients) . What happened in the the other tanks - with nutrients - if not answer - IMHO - no conclusion

The conclusion is simple and as suggested from the PoV of a food web.

The nutrients will be released into the tank and new algae will pop up. You will see the nutrient levels rise as the new algae population begains to reassert itself. As the nutrients are consumed so to are algaes that consume them. Then raising the population of predators in this case copepods. Now the nutrients are "stored" in the pods. Whereby increasing their numbers. As they start to die of old age and other factors they will release their nutrients back into the tank to then be consumed by the algaes that will then be consumed by the pods thereby creating a circle.

Adding more nutrients will increase the pod populations not the algae populations. Now we can sit another predator on the top and store even more nutrients into say a mandrian goby. We can also provide other routes for nutrient storage through avenues like skimming, macro alage, inverts etc ... creating a very complicated food web to store nutrients. The more nutrients the more complicated food web we can create. The more complicated and diversified the web the more stable it becomes.

Trying to measure free nutrients is a waste of time because they will be quickly consumed into the food web. The transition will be too quick to see in free form, and ultimately it doesn't really say anything about the nutrients in teh web.

 

[MnFish1]

I cant disagree - because I dont know of evidence of what you're saying based on this video - I.e. When the algae died - they removed the 'sludge' - their words not mine.

 

[trainbob]

I was there and really enjoyed his presentation thought he did a great job. Could be wrong but thought he said the testing was not done yet. One thing not discussed here was his opinion about hydrogen peroxide dip for corals any thoughts on that issue

 

[HuduVudu]

OK I'm not the best at these analogies. But IMHO what you're saying does not make sense. first because neither of us know what happened in that particular aquarium. Second - because see # 1. There were multiple aquariums in the experiment. They did a great job trying to prove what they wanted to prove - However the things they seemed to want to prove were related to new tanks/cycling.

We don't need to know what happened in a particular aqaurim if we understand the concept behind it. I don't need to know will be presented to me next if I understand the concept red. If I fully grasp this concept then I can say with certianty whether something is red or not. I don't care if it is a fire engine or a ball. I am looking at the concept.

The main concept here is the idea of predation and prey or more precisely competition. This is one of the main take aways of this lecture.

I think the main goal was how to deal with what aquarists call the uglies. I think that multiple aproaches based on a core concept were presented and I think that they handily proved the idea (concept) of competition as being the solution to the problem. Any particular implementation is irrelavant. If some implementation was used to sell a product then fine. My only question then is: Does it work? If it does then pay the money and move on. The video goes further and provides an actual concept to work from this is pretty rare from sales videos. Most companies want you to only have one solution ... theirs.

 

[HuduVudu]

I was there and really enjoyed his presentation thought he did a great job. Could be wrong but thought he said the testing was not done yet. One thing not discussed here was his opinion about hydrogen peroxide dip for corals any thoughts on that issue

I think his reasoning was sound. Minimize the number of everything in the hope that the predators can kick in faster than the prey.

 

[HuduVudu]

I cant disagree - because I dont know of evidence of what you're saying based on this video - I.e. When the algae died - they removed the 'sludge' - their words not mine.

The path not taken for sure.

Based on my own experience though I can say with certainty what happens next. You don't have THAT exact experience I understand and you are probably skeptical of me and my reasoning. That is normal. My response then would be wait and watch ... you will see.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Copepods eat Dinos. Cyano not so much. Ryan talks about this in the video.

I have DInos in my system and they are not plague. I also have cyano, dito. Dinos are definitely nasty because of the toxin. My snails and urchins avoid them. Not sure what is keeping them in check I have copepods and amphipods in my system. Also my cyano is pretty mild. IME cyano flares up in the heat. Even with my tank pushing into 85 the cyano is mild. This with a light pushing 8k. Something is there.

I really think that Ryan is onto something in this video.

One other point is that I have been dosing phyto for quite some time. Perhaps there are other algaes predators in that. But the main point remains competition.

Are you sure it’s not diatoms, dinos have. Different look from diatoms although most of the time they can be very similar.

 

[HuduVudu]

Are you sure it’s not diatoms, dinos have. Different look from diatoms although most of the time they can be very similar.

Trust me it's dinos ... I can send pics if you like. It likes to flare up every now and again. Nasty stuff for sure.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Yes, he said at the very beginning that there is a 10 part series coming out. This series took 6 months to film. But judging from your comments @sixty_reefer, it seems ( I know it’s a long video) you seemed to watch the cliff notes version. Try not to get so caught up in the words, but the ideas, someone is trying to put forth. It is the way of thinking, not how many copepods one puts in the tank that sparks change.

It’s not the words I’m getting caught on, is my experience I’ve been an advocate for organisms diversity for a long time, I’m probably one in a few that doesn’t care in adding all types of life form to my system including nudibranch etc.. what I’ve come to conclude is that nutrition is the base of all reefs we can only achieve a good bacterial community if we have a good amount of nutrients going into the tank organic and inorganic nutrient, most forget how important organic nutrients are.
dinoflagellates and Cyanobacteria and most likely green nuisance algaes are all connected to nutrients unbalance, coming out to say that the solution could be as simple as copepod is just crazy to me.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I was there and really enjoyed his presentation thought he did a great job. Could be wrong but thought he said the testing was not done yet. One thing not discussed here was his opinion about hydrogen peroxide dip for corals any thoughts on that issue

He’s right on that one, hydrogen dip will kill most algaes it will also kill copepod and amphipods at full concentration

 

[sixty_reefer]

Trust me it's dinos ... I can send pics if you like. It likes to flare up every now and again. Nasty stuff for sure.

I’m curious on your nutrients?

 

[HuduVudu]

I’m curious on your nutrients?

Let me test.