Nitrate trending down

[CatsandClowns]

Heyo!
I am having trouble figuring out how I should proceed. Ive noticed my nitrates trending down over a period of about a month from a stable 5ppm down to <1ppm(salifert test kit). Since noticing this trend Ive fed more volume with more frequency and dosed more live phytoplankton. All this has done is fuel algae growth and brought my PO4 up to 0.09. Ive since reduced feeding volume and phyto. I cant say with any confidence whether or not the live phytoplankton may have something to do with the uptake of NO3.

However I am really concerned with letting nitrates get that low. Through reading some threads on here I am considering dosing either ammonium bicarbonate or sodium nitrate. When I asked at the LFS if they had any opinion on this idea, two perspectives I heard were: Sodium Nitrate, or to "not even think about it". What would you all recommend in this scenario. If going the dosing route, which of these chemicals would have less of an effect on alkalinity, also how would you adjust dosing alkalinity supplements alongside it.

 

[ColorMeGone]

I use Ammonium Bicarbonate in my Doser. I keep my N03 at 10-15 and Dose Sodium Phosphate to keep my P04 around .1. Also baking soda for KH.

 

[CatsandClowns]

I use Ammonium Bicarbonate in my Doser. I keep my N03 at 10-15 and Dose Sodium Phosphate to keep my P04 around .1. Also baking soda for KH.

Actually looking back on my post I feel i made an error, in that ammonium bicarbonate is net-neutral for Kh. I believe it was ammonium chloride that just decreases Kh or something equivalent. I haven't tried baking soda, I find 2 part easier to measure. Also which brand did you go with when you purchased yours

 

[dinosaur_1552]

I cant say with any confidence whether or not the live phytoplankton may have something to do with the uptake of NO3.

Now I am not sure that this is your issue in this case, but phyto in general is photosynthetic and is taking up nitrate.

 

[ColorMeGone]

Consolidated chemical for Ammonium Bic. Loudwolf for Sodium Phosphate Dibasic and arm and hammer for BS.

 

[EnterName]

Low nitrate levels are not necessarily an indicator for a total nitrogen limitation so there is a good chance you don't need to worry too much about it. Many people are running ultra low nutrient systems without issues (myself included).

To maximize growth a bit, I started dosing nitrate a few weeks ago. Right now I'm using up a sodium nitrate solution (MicrobeLift Basic-N) I had sitting around, and will switch to automated ammonium bicarbonate/chloride dosing once it's empty.

Biologically this makes the most sense as corals can consume ammonia far easier than nitrate which is why people like recommending ammonium. You only need to be aware that there is an equilibrium reaction going on, which will convert some of the ammonium to ammonia so just dumping in large amounts of ammonium at once might be a bad idea. It's better to add it throughout the day in tiny amounts according to the actual consumption. This way ammomia concentrations stay low and there is always readily available nitrogen for your corals.

Natural methods (e.g. more food) may be "better" but will increase phosphate too much in many cases. I wouldn't chase any specific ratios but if you see algae growth starting to become an issue I would try targeted nitrogen dosing instead.

 

[CHSUB]

Is something suffering in your aquarium, should be the first question? If not, except nuisance algae, than why do anything? Most of my tank over years have never registered no3 with Salifert.

 

[CatsandClowns]

Low nitrate levels are not necessarily an indicator for a total nitrogen limitation so there is a good chance you don't need to worry too much about it. Many people are running ultra low nutrient systems without issues (myself included).

To maximize growth a bit, I started dosing nitrate a few weeks ago. Right now I'm using up a sodium nitrate solution (MicrobeLift Basic-N) I had sitting around, and will switch to automated ammonium bicarbonate/chloride dosing once it's empty.

Biologically this makes the most sense as corals can consume ammonia far easier than nitrate which is why people like recommending ammonium. You only need to be aware that there is an equilibrium reaction going on, which will convert some of the ammonium to ammonia so just dumping in large amounts of ammonium at once might be a bad idea. It's better to add it throughout the day in tiny amounts according to the actual consumption. This way ammomia concentrations stay low and there is always readily available nitrogen for your corals.

Natural methods (e.g. more food) may be "better" but will increase phosphate too much in many cases. I wouldn't chase any specific ratios but if you see algae growth starting to become an issue I would try targeted nitrogen dosing instead.

I went ahead and bought some off Amazon just now, should arrive tmrw thankfully. I would like to get on this ASAP. I will also order another dosing pump in a sec. However, I have a question regarding dosing it as it seem difficult to gauge the amount of consumption, like how can I tell however much I'm dosing is enough(or too much) relative to the total coral biomass since trace amounts wont even register on the ammonia test kit, or is the increase in nitrates something you will be able to test for. Or is ammonia dosing more-so to keep nitrates from dropping any more. Sorry if that was confused, because I am

 

[EnterName]

Low nitrate levels are not necessarily an indicator for a total nitrogen limitation so there is a good chance you don't need to worry too much about it. Many people are running ultra low nutrient systems without issues (myself included).

To maximize growth a bit, I started dosing nitrate a few weeks ago. Right now I'm using up a sodium nitrate solution (MicrobeLift Basic-N) I had sitting around, and will switch to automated ammonium bicarbonate/chloride dosing once it's empty.

Biologically this makes the most sense as corals can consume ammonia far easier than nitrate which is why people like recommending ammonium. You only need to be aware that there is an equilibrium reaction going on, which will convert some of the ammonium to ammonia so just dumping in large amounts of ammonium at once might be a bad idea. It's better to add it throughout the day in tiny amounts according to the actual consumption. This way ammomia concentrations stay low and there is always readily available nitrogen for your corals.

Natural methods (e.g. more food) may be "better" but will increase phosphate too much in many cases. I wouldn't chase any specific ratios but if you see algae growth starting to become an issue I would try targeted nitrogen dosing instead.

I went ahead and bought some off Amazon just now, should arrive tmrw thankfully. I would like to get on this ASAP. I will also order another dosing pump in a sec. However, I have a question regarding dosing it as it seem difficult to gauge the amount of consumption, like how can I tell however much I'm dosing is enough(or too much) relative to the total coral biomass since trace amounts wont even register on the ammonia test kit, or is the increase in nitrates something you will be able to test for. Or is ammonia dosing more-so to keep nitrates from dropping any more. Sorry if that was confused, because I am

Don't worry, it's okay to be a bit confused, that's why some great folks on this forum already did a lot of work to make it easier. You will probably find what you need here:

DIY Ammonia Dosing Chart

Introduction: Many reef tanks have an incredible nitrate demand, and despite the additional fish and coral food, still struggle to make an impact on the nitrate level. This can subject corals, anemones, coralline, macro/microalgae, and clams to nutrient starvation. Any photosynthetic organism...

www.reef2reef.com

And if this doesn't help or you are still unsure, I can try to answer your questions :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I dose ammonium bicarbonate solution because my nitrate declines if I do not.

I recommend it for most tanks with nitrate below 5 ppm. Yes, some tanks may have adequate other sources of N, but the nitrate is insurance that you do.

Here’s a detailed thread on it:

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Reeferbadness]

My fuge sucks nitrates out of the system and they bottomed out a couple of years ago - causing slower growth and some color issues, i went the easy route and dose NeoNitrate with a dosing pump and now it it's stable at around 5-10 ppm and corals are much healthier and growth is faster. My $0.02

 

[CatsandClowns]

Is something suffering in your aquarium, should be the first question? If not, except nuisance algae, than why do anything? Most of my tank over years have never registered no3 with Salifert.

I wouldn't say so, then again Im not experienced enough to visually determine whether my corals are nutrient deprived. Id have to wait and observe for any changes in the following days to weeks. But yea film algae grow on the glass really fast, after about 2-3 days after water change

 

[CHSUB]

I wouldn't say so, then again Im not experienced enough to visually determine whether my corals are nutrient deprived. Id have to wait and observe for any changes in the following days to weeks. But yea film algae grow on the glass really fast, after about 2-3 days after water change

So algae is growing, which needs nitrogen to grow. Your Salifert test kit shows clear, which mine has done for 2.5 decades of using Salifert. I would not dose no3 unless algae is non existent and corals look unhealthy, even in your limited experience should be evident. Of course, if having a little pink in your Salifert Test Kit make you feel “better” than do it because I don’t want you to get sad; but know it won’t do anything for your aquarium.

FYI here is what a 0 reading looks like in my aquarium:

 

[CatsandClowns]

I dose ammonium bicarbonate solution because my nitrate declines if I do not.

I recommend it for most tanks with nitrate below 5 ppm. Yes, some tanks may have adequate other sources of N, but the nitrate is insurance that you do.

Here’s a detailed thread on it:

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

Would you recommend against dosing ammonium in newer tanks with relatively low coral biomass

 

[CHSUB]

Would you recommend against dosing ammonium in newer tanks with relatively low coral biomass

I don’t know much about your aquarium to definitely give you a recommendation. However, from the information you have provided I would so no. How about some more information and maybe a picture?

 

[CatsandClowns]

I don’t know much about your aquarium to definitely give you a recommendation. However, from the information you have provided I would so no. How about some more information and maybe a picture?

Tanks about 5.5 months old(including tank transfer), started this one with GLR and other cured live rock. Ive got 4 fish in here, captive bred mandarin you might be able to see in its cave, two clowns, and the gramma. Sorry bout the photos, Im physically incapable of taking better ones. FYI the Bill Murray on the right had been bleached in the LFS for some time, since then I am seeing significant recovery in the bleached tips. Lemme know what other info you might be referring to

 

[CHSUB]

Tanks about 5.5 months old(including tank transfer), started this one with GLR and other cured live rock. Ive got 4 fish in here, captive bred mandarin you might be able to see in its cave, two clowns, and the gramma. Sorry bout the photos, Im physically incapable of taking better ones. FYI the Bill Murray on the right had been bleached in the LFS for some time, since then I am seeing significant recovery in the bleached tips. Lemme know what other info you might be referring to

Tank looks very nice, not seeing anything that would indicate a nitrogen deficiency: fed fish, algae and corals look healthy.
I would not dose any nitrogen supplements. Are you using any supplements that encourage bacteria growth, like carbon dosing? If not I would suggest good maintenance, adequate feeding, and time for corals to grow.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Would you recommend against dosing ammonium in newer tanks with relatively low coral biomass

No. I did it in my tank. The only drawback, IMO, is either you need to manually dose every day, maybe more than once a day, while nitrate dosing is easier to add 5-10 ppm at once.

 

[CatsandClowns]

Tank looks very nice, not seeing anything that would indicate a nitrogen deficiency: fed fish, algae and corals look healthy.
I would not dose any nitrogen supplements. Are you using any supplements that encourage bacteria growth, like carbon dosing? If not I would suggest good maintenance, adequate feeding, and time for corals to grow.

I just feed 2-3x daily and have not really considered carbon dosing. Im conflicted on whether I should just wait and see. I will have the ammonium on hand if it comes down to it.

 

[CHSUB]

I just feed 2-3x daily and have not really considered carbon dosing. Im conflicted on whether I should just wait and see. I will have the ammonium on hand if it comes down to it.

I would not carbon dose and simply monitor corals. If coral growth is lacking maybe adding a little ammonium might increase growth. However, imo, if you do add ammonium and growth improves, I don’t necessarily agree that ammonium is the reason. I notice subtle changes in my aquarium all the time and don’t change anything. Things are constantly evolving in my aquarium that I have no real explanations why. Here is an example from ICP testing, manganese seems to bounce around, maybe this could explain some changes or maybe it’s testing error or maybe nothing? Note the graph over the last year of testing.