Not a feesh supplements

[Swoff11]

Fun update: Serious Reefs just did a full video on our product for anyone interested!

This is actually what got me looking into it. I’m on AFR and I’m having issues with low trace elements. Are your traces increased by comparison? Also if I was to switch would I need to start off at a lower dose and slowly work up to what your calculator says while the all for reef is starting to decline?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This is actually what got me looking into it. I’m on AFR and I’m having issues with low trace elements. Are your traces increased by comparison? Also if I was to switch would I need to start off at a lower dose and slowly work up to what your calculator says while the all for reef is starting to decline?

Matching trace elements to calcium and alk demand is often not going to be best, no matter what one puts in it. That is because in some tanks, nearly all trace demand comes from hard corals that also use calcium and alk, and in other tanks, very little of the demand comes from corals that have hard skeletons.

 

[hunterallen40]

Are your traces increased by comparison? A

I believe so, yes. But it's very hard to answer. Most folks that have switched have seen better numbers on their ICP.

Also if I was to switch would I need to start off at a lower dose and slowly work up to what your calculator says while the all for reef is starting to decline?

Most folks just switch with the calculator, or give the system a day to consume any excess and start going. Neither of these routes has shown itself to be better than the other.

Would love to have you on board!

 

[Swoff11]

Matching trace elements to calcium and alk demand is often not going to be best, no matter what one puts in it. That is because in some tanks, nearly all trace demand comes from hard corals that also use calcium and alk, and in other tanks, very little of the demand comes from corals that have hard skeletons.

Understandable, I travel a lot for work so I’m just looking for something that will hopefully require less adjustment on my part in general. And the ph boost is a plus for me. I could always get a few more wifi dosers and hope for the best .

 

[NoriSheet]

Serious Reefs talk a lot about the safety of this product in their video. Would this be a product that requires PH controllers to ensure it is not overdosed by dosing pumps. As someone who hasn't jumped head first into the controller world yet, I am wondering if the risk is even worth the reward. I have a PH monitor for what its worth...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is prudent to be careful with hydroxide additives, and a high pH shut off is a reasonable approach.

 

[hunterallen40]

It is prudent to be careful with hydroxide additives, and a high pH shut off is a reasonable approach.

@Randy Holmes-Farley I'm curious... what pH would you consider "too high" these days?

I have a shut off programmed for a pH of 9.0, which should never really be attainable unless the doser is malfunctioning. My display tank often reaches ~8.6 by the end of the day, and I see no ill-effects from this (on fish or corals), but that number seems to raise concern for some people.

Do you think sustained pH above 8.4 is "bad"?

 

[hunterallen40]

Serious Reefs talk a lot about the safety of this product in their video. Would this be a product that requires PH controllers to ensure it is not overdosed by dosing pumps. As someone who hasn't jumped head first into the controller world yet, I am wondering if the risk is even worth the reward. I have a PH monitor for what its worth...

@NoriSheet in general, I think it's a very wise idea to have a controller that shuts off your dosing pump if pH reaches a certain level that should not happen with nominal operation, whether you use hydroxide based additives or soda ash.

IMHO, the majority of concerns should be in terms of proper handling and proper storage of these solutions.

I have several folks running this two part without an apex / hydros controller, and I do not personally consider it to be required gear. That said, I do think it is a great idea to have a failsafe (but again, would say the same for a soda ash based additive).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I'm curious... what pH would you consider "too high" these days?

I have a shut off programmed for a pH of 9.0, which should never really be attainable unless the doser is malfunctioning. My display tank often reaches ~8.6 by the end of the day, and I see no ill-effects from this (on fish or corals), but that number seems to raise concern for some people.

Do you think sustained pH above 8.4 is "bad"?

I’d shut off only in an overdose, and 8.6 seems reasonable to me. My old tank routinely ran from 8.35 to 8.55.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That said, I do think it is a great idea to have a failsafe (but again, would say the same for a soda ash based additive).

I don’t disagree. I also suspect a bicarbonate overdose might actually be more problematic than a carbonate or hydroxide overdose because the latter often causes a massive precipitation event, turning the tank milky. That looks bad, but it brings the alk and pH rapidly back to normal and the aquarist does not have an ongoing alk spike that bicarbonate may cause.

I’ve had hydroxide overdoses (kalk with slurry getting into the line) and tank turning milky several times with no loses or action required by me except stop the dose.

 

[rtparty]

Understandable, I travel a lot for work so I’m just looking for something that will hopefully require less adjustment on my part in general. And the ph boost is a plus for me. I could always get a few more wifi dosers and hope for the best .

Do NOT under any circumstance put a doser on a Wi-Fi outlet. Ask me how I know

Especially a hydroxide based additive

 

[Swoff11]

Do NOT under any circumstance put a doser on a Wi-Fi outlet. Ask me how I know

Especially a hydroxide based additive

I’m talking more in line with the Neptune dos. What uhh.. what happened there ?

 

[rtparty]

I’m talking more in line with the Neptune dos. What uhh.. what happened there ?

The Neptune DOS should be plenty safe since it is controlled by the Neptune brain and that doesn't require Wi-Fi to run.

I was stupid and put All For Reef on a dosing pump that was controlled by a Kasa power strip. The Kasa strips REQUIRE internet to run their schedules. It isn't saved locally on the strip. The Kasa strip turned the pump on, lost connection, and never turned it off. Dumped a gallon of AFR into my 100g tank. Lost multiple pieces. I did close to 100% in water changes over a couple days to get everything back to normal. All my pumps gunked up with precipitation and all my snails went comatose.

 

[Swoff11]

The Neptune DOS should be plenty safe since it is controlled by the Neptune brain and that doesn't require Wi-Fi to run.

I was stupid and put All For Reef on a dosing pump that was controlled by a Kasa power strip. The Kasa strips REQUIRE internet to run their schedules. It isn't saved locally on the strip. The Kasa strip turned the pump on, lost connection, and never turned it off. Dumped a gallon of AFR into my 100g tank. Lost multiple pieces. I did close to 100% in water changes over a couple days to get everything back to normal. All my pumps gunked up with precipitation and all my snails went comatose.

Yikes. I used to use those Kasa plugs too and they’d get stuck on sometimes so you’d have to schedule like 5 off times and 5 on times just to be sure. I went away from them when I started dosing things more regularly but I still have them for some equipment like my booster pump on the rodi unit.

 

[Amstar]

I am running Not a feesh 2 part via an apex dos and monitoring by the trident with cross-checks against the trident with a Hannah tester each month. -- my apex is also tracking my ph - and I have a CO2 scrubber on my tank. - I do not give the apex/dos permission to dose based on trident test results -- I have set my own dosing schedule of both 2 parts over a 24 hour period

with all said my parameters and dosing are dialed in and I am running consistent alk, calc and mag with the 2 part and with my scrubber I am running 8.23 to 8.35 ph swings but pretty steady -- I do have a my refugium on an alternate light cycle than the main tank and I pull fresh air into the skimmer and have my co2 scrubber also controlled by a mechanical valve (pull from the co2 scrubber or just straight skimmer) depending on my PH readings

I have a mixed reef with smaller /medium sized SPS pieces that are starting to really take off and I have multiple torches, hammers, plates, other corals.

I have not sent in an ICP test to see if I am "missing" any trace elements that Not a feesh can then add to my own recipe of 2 part if desired depending on what my ICP test shows

Now before not a feesh I have never dosed a tank (Just water changes on smaller tanks) but with my main tank being a larger tank and having a large coral bio mix load I am dosing and my tank is reacting very well.

I aslo do an auto water change of 1 gallon per day on the tank (yes little counter productive to dosing this 2 part) but I do it for nutrient export due to liking to feed and make my fish happy and fat -- my dosing takes this into account and again I have it dialed in to where I see very little movement in my numbers -- but plan on adjusting as things continue to grow

 

[rtparty]

Yikes. I used to use those Kasa plugs too and they’d get stuck on sometimes so you’d have to schedule like 5 off times and 5 on times just to be sure. I went away from them when I started dosing things more regularly but I still have them for some equipment like my booster pump on the rodi unit.

Yeah, I read somewhere to put in a ton of off commands so I did. I’ve removed them now and went back to Apex

 

[FishLvR]

Thanks everyone, my PH is stuck at 7.9 which is why I was asking.

I am still on the fence, also debating just bitting the bullet and getting a calcium reactor BUT that may screw my PH.

Nothing is straight forward in this hobby so decisions to be made, but thank you all for commenting!

My most successful tank was 7.8-7.9. Don't chance it unless you are having issues.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My most successful tank was 7.8-7.9. Don't chance it unless you are having issues.

What concerns you that makes you describe it as “chance it”?

 

[Rshahnyc]

Just got through my first gallon of NAF 2 part.

Hunter talked me through it on the initial buy. PH add seems to be about 0.1-0.2 and essentially allows my tank to function as if the windows are open even when they are not.

As far as safe handling. I used the gloves included in the kit and used his 1 gallon storage holder x2 as well (just drilled a hole through the cap). Been working fine.

My icp test showed fewer trace elements disparities than when I used Red Sea blue bucket and all for reef. (Although I also switched my salt to HW marine mix reefer so take it as you will)

 

[theishkid]

Can I ask what’s probably a really dumb question but I know nothing about chemistry… if the sodium hydroxide is dangerous to get on your skin… how dangerous would it be putting your hand in the tank to move corals for example?

Or what about more specifically needing to get your hand into the chamber of the sump you’re dosing it into?