Not gonna lie looks like snake oil

[MnFish1]

I added copepods very early (even before fish, but once cycle completed), and started dosing phyto at the same time.

I have never added copepods.

 

[doubleshot00]

I have never added copepods.

I add copepods monthly for S and Giggles

 

[tautog83]

Doesnt this post make you wonder why places like tbs and kp dont just sink marine pure blocks for 2 years and then sell them for people who want biodiversity . I get it though,people are lining up to pay $25 a lb for rock without shipping ,so why would you . I think the idea is fine , but why use rubble when 7 spheres have like 50x the surface area then 2 lbs of rubble. I could care less about your dna testing its probably a bunch of bs. Do you get dna samples of the live rock you buy? I think if companies sold media blocks like that , people could get their biodoversity and still use dry rock effectivley .

 

[doubleshot00]

Doesnt this post make you wonder why places like tbs and kp dont just sink marine pure blocks for 2 years and then sell them for people who want biodiversity . I get it though,people are lining up to pay $25 a lb for rock without shipping ,so why would you . I think the idea is fine , but why use rubble when 7 spheres have like 50x the surface area then 2 lbs of rubble. I could care less about your dna testing its probably a bunch of bs. Do you get dna samples of the live rock you buy? I think if companies sold media blocks like that , people could get their biodoversity and still use dry rock effectivley .

Well said. Imo there is a huge void here in the market. They would rather sell bacteria in a bottle and dry rock. And the reason why I bought this container or Reef rubble.

 

[GobyGuy]

Doesnt this post make you wonder why places like tbs and kp dont just sink marine pure blocks for 2 years and then sell them for people who want biodiversity . I get it though,people are lining up to pay $25 a lb for rock without shipping ,so why would you . I think the idea is fine , but why use rubble when 7 spheres have like 50x the surface area then 2 lbs of rubble. I could care less about your dna testing its probably a bunch of bs. Do you get dna samples of the live rock you buy? I think if companies sold media blocks like that , people could get their biodoversity and still use dry rock effectivley .

Perhaps rock material is beneficial more so than ceramic medias? I don’t know, I would def purchase that too haha

 

[tautog83]

I mean mainly for gorilla crabs ,mantis shrimp and bobbit worms to hide lol you would still have rock , it would just start out as dry

 

[MnFish1]

Doesnt this post make you wonder why places like tbs and kp dont just sink marine pure blocks for 2 years and then sell them for people who want biodiversity . I get it though,people are lining up to pay $25 a lb for rock without shipping ,so why would you . I think the idea is fine , but why use rubble when 7 spheres have like 50x the surface area then 2 lbs of rubble. I could care less about your dna testing its probably a bunch of bs. Do you get dna samples of the live rock you buy? I think if companies sold media blocks like that , people could get their biodoversity and still use dry rock effectivley .

I had the same thought about just soaking a known material for xxx amount of time

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I had the same thought about just soaking a known material for xxx amount of time

I think the idea of using rocks is because the biodiversity which would grow on a rock vs a biobrick would likely be much greater since the rocks host many macrolife which carry different bacterial species that aren't already present and when they make their home in or on the rock they also introduce new bacteria which wasnt already there...biobricks don't have anywhere to host most of these organisms and therefore probably wouldn't pick up the same amount of biodiversity in the same time period...in other words I think the hitchhikers probably introduce a lot of new bacterial diversity to the rocks

 

[areefer01]

Doesnt this post make you wonder why places like tbs and kp dont just sink marine pure blocks for 2 years and then sell them for people who want biodiversity . I get it though,people are lining up to pay $25 a lb for rock without shipping ,so why would you . I think the idea is fine , but why use rubble when 7 spheres have like 50x the surface area then 2 lbs of rubble. I could care less about your dna testing its probably a bunch of bs. Do you get dna samples of the live rock you buy? I think if companies sold media blocks like that , people could get their biodoversity and still use dry rock effectivley .

The marine pure and similar products will not hold up in oceanic conditions. TBS and KP have acres are rocks which can handle the temps, swells, and storms. Mini reefs on an otherwise flat area of sand.

Reef rubble isn't a new thing. IPSF has been selling this for years. So did garf. The stuff discussed in this thread has an extra feature of providing a report on its contents. If anyone wants to know more about it search on the company name and there are several talks on it.

After that up to the hobbyist to make the decision if the product is right for them.

 

[MnFish1]

I think the idea of using rocks is because the biodiversity which would grow on a rock vs a biobrick would likely be much greater since the rocks host many macrolife which carry different bacterial species that aren't already present and when they make their home in or on the rock they also introduce new bacteria which wasnt already there...biobricks don't have anywhere to host most of these organisms and therefore probably wouldn't pick up the same amount of biodiversity in the same time period...in other words I think the hitchhikers probably introduce a lot of new bacterial diversity to the rocks

Do you have any information or article - that shows that adding 'biodiversity' from Florida affects positively coral from Indonesia - or vice versa? Do you have any information or article that suggests that adding Rock/Rubble with new bacteria ABCDE - that over time these bacteria A, B, C, D, E - survive and have any positive effects on a tank, coral or fish?

its my opinion - that the coral contains its preferred biome - and that its possible that adding new bacteria MAY (key word - MAY) affect it negatively.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Do you have any information or article - that shows that adding 'biodiversity' from Florida affects positively coral from Indonesia - or vice versa? Do you have any information or article that suggests that adding Rock/Rubble with new bacteria ABCDE - that over time these bacteria A, B, C, D, E - survive and have any positive effects on a tank, coral or fish?

its my opinion - that the coral contains its preferred biome - and that its possible that adding new bacteria MAY (key word - MAY) affect it negatively.

I absolutely don't have any evidence...my post was purely an assumption as to why they farm rock exclusively...if it is the case though that the biodiversity on rock from a location such as Indonesia supports Indonesian corals best then I'm in a good position to provide for my corals

 

[ReefGeezer]

its my opinion - that the coral contains its preferred biome - and that its possible that adding new bacteria MAY (key word - MAY) affect it negatively.

I think that while live rock adds bacteria that can assist the system in managing nutrients and allows us to select for desirable strains, I agree that the its value is not supplying bacteria to supplement the corals' biome. I think it is safe to add live rock or, I suppose, the rubble rock product. I don't see a mechanism that would allow the relatively small number of bacteria in the new rocks to outcompete the bacteria in a healthy corals biome any more than the existing bacteria in a mature tank would when we add a coral to it.

If the value of ocean cultured live rock was solely bacteria, I think my opinion of the rubble rock's value would be more positive.

 

[MnFish1]

The marine pure and similar products will not hold up in oceanic conditions. TBS and KP have acres are rocks which can handle the temps, swells, and storms. Mini reefs on an otherwise flat area of sand.

I am not sure this is true. After all - they are in aquaria - which contain the same chemicals as a reef. I would guess that in deeper areas, there would be no issue with swells, temps or storms. Many reefs are far deeper than 'the shoreline'.

if it is the case though that the biodiversity on rock from a location such as Indonesia supports Indonesian corals best then I'm in a good position to provide for my corals

I have no problem with using live rock. No matter where it's from. I also have no problem with using Aquabiomics product. I'm just trying to figure out where exactly this goal of microbial diversity has come from? There are probably hundreds (if not many more) of species that we do not keep in our tanks that are on the reef.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I am not sure this is true. After all - they are in aquaria - which contain the same chemicals as a reef. I would guess that in deeper areas, there would be no issue with swells, temps or storms. Many reefs are far deeper than 'the shoreline'.

I have no problem with using live rock. No matter where it's from. I also have no problem with using Aquabiomics product. I'm just trying to figure out where exactly this goal of microbial diversity has come from? There are probably hundreds (if not many more) of species that we do not keep in our tanks that are on the reef.

Since we really don't know the full extent of microbial diversity on the organisms (all of them) we keep it's always seemed to me that it's a worthwhile goal to try our best to replicate the microbiome of a natural environment similar to what we're striving for, that's just my personal opinion of course

 

[areefer01]

I am not sure this is true. After all - they are in aquaria - which contain the same chemicals as a reef. I would guess that in deeper areas, there would be no issue with swells, temps or storms. Many reefs are far deeper than 'the shoreline'.

By any chance have you used them? They are very porous and light. Fragile comes to mind. They degrade over time especially when used in a higher flow area. Maybe they can be placed in the ocean or lagoon but the rocks used by both TBS and KP are more ideal.

I used a Marine Pure block for a bit but ended up removing it due to it starting to degrade. When that starts to happen they become a mess.

I have no problem with using live rock. No matter where it's from. I also have no problem with using Aquabiomics product. I'm just trying to figure out where exactly this goal of microbial diversity has come from? There are probably hundreds (if not many more) of species that we do not keep in our tanks that are on the reef.

It could be that maybe you are coming at it from a different direction. Part of the use case is to help seed a new, dry, foundation that is otherwise barren. There is nothing. I don't know /shrug.

Don't mean it in a negative way.

 

[Bobbyvelvet]

I added copepods very early (even before fish, but once cycle completed), and started dosing phyto at the same time.

Thanks so I am at day 13 No Amonia, No Nitrite, and Nitrate now rising 40PPM. I went with lower salinity and higher temp and seems to be working well. I am going to raise salinity slowly over next week then add pods and phyto.

 

[Rigoberto]

Thanks so I am at day 13 No Amonia, No Nitrite, and Nitrate now rising 40PPM. I went with lower salinity and higher temp and seems to be working well. I am going to raise salinity slowly over next week then add pods and phyto.

I recall that I did a pretty good sized WC like 50% to knock the nitrates down before adding pods. Mine were > 50 though which was off my measurement kit scale.

 

[Paul B]

Vibrant that has been proven to be snake oil.

Vibrant wasn’t a snake oil

OK To me calling something snake oil

There seems to be something to this snake oil. What types of snakes and how many do I need to get the correct Snake oil? Can I just put them into my wine press or should I cut them up so they fit into my French Press coffee maker?

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

What types of snakes and how many do I need to get the correct Snake oil? Can I just put them into my wine press or should I cut them up so they fit into my French Press coffee maker?

You use a french press coffee maker? I'm a moka pot man myself...much stronger and richer flavor!

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I don’t understand the argument of adding diversity for the most part. Adding diversity is the complete opposite of achieving stability. I don’t want diversity in my tanks. I want the right “things” all the time. That’s why bacterial dosing is the only method to this that makes any logical sense to me and I Have doubts that it matters what bacteria is dosed this way and it’s more important to constantly use the same ones over again. Unless you planning on adding his reef rubble on a set schedule to maintain the proper diversity then what you just put in will be completely different in a month. Stability, it’s a new concept I’m going to coin.