Not gonna lie looks like snake oil

[brandon429]

In my opinion the rock needs to be fallow prepped before being sold as disease free, it can't be rock coming from no disease preps with a passing dna test getting to make that claim.

I had been reserving comment a long time here not wanting to evaluate Eli unfairly and now I'm interested to know if he's actually prepping the rock against disease and then attempting to validate with a DNA survey. If he is, then that's a great business idea good for you. Not that dna was tested from every harboring surface on a given set of rocks; but taking time to pre fallow already applies the best preps we have so far. You'd be selling legit prepped rocks + a tiny reassurance kick from the test
That's supportable capitalism

 

[Mattiejay6]

There seems to be something to this snake oil. What types of snakes and how many do I need to get the correct Snake oil? Can I just put them into my wine press or should I cut them up so they fit into my French Press coffee maker?

Probably wouldn’t be healthy lol

 

[James5214]

Just got a container of Aquabiomics reef rubble and it looks like rocks and seashells i can get at the beach (i live 20min from the the beach). I was gonna order from TB Saltwater But there shipping is out if this world. I guess $50 for snake oil isn’t that bad.

After I dumped it out it definitely cloudy the tank up a but.

Whats y’alls opinion on this. Seems like snake oil but is it.

Did u try local pick up? I did that with them an have great results

 

[slythy]

I don’t understand the argument of adding diversity for the most part. Adding diversity is the complete opposite of achieving stability. I don’t want diversity in my tanks. I want the right “things” all the time. That’s why bacterial dosing is the only method to this that makes any logical sense to me and I Have doubts that it matters what bacteria is dosed this way and it’s more important to constantly use the same ones over again. Unless you planning on adding his reef rubble on a set schedule to maintain the proper diversity then what you just put in will be completely different in a month. Stability, it’s a new concept I’m going to coin.

i think you are missing the point. So if you have 1 strain of bacteria that can only fight x & y then z comes along and overtakes your original bacteria then its now unstable. But if you have a lot of different bacterias able to fight off the small bad things when you introduce new fish or corals then you have increased stability. Thats why I think age is such an important factor for most people because it takes time for all those bacterias to naturally find the right balance and keep everything happy. each time uou add a new coral or fish you are adding bio diversity of some sort so its good to have a strong basis to start with so it doesnt get wacky all the time.

this is why people with live sand/live rock typically have better tanks earlier than bare bottom dry rock. It takes way longer to get to that stable diversity.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

i think you are missing the point. So if you have 1 strain of bacteria that can only fight x & y then z comes along and overtakes your original bacteria then its now unstable. But if you have a lot of different bacterias able to fight off the small bad things when you introduce new fish or corals then you have increased stability. Thats why I think age is such an important factor for most people because it takes time for all those bacterias to naturally find the right balance and keep everything happy. each time uou add a new coral or fish you are adding bio diversity of some sort so its good to have a strong basis to start with so it doesnt get wacky all the time.

this is why people with live sand/live rock typically have better tanks earlier than bare bottom dry rock. It takes way longer to get to that stable diversity.

I agree diversity = stability and the ability to handle a wider range of conditions and possibilities that may occur. Plus I personally feel the microbiome is something to strive to keep natural since we don't know exactly how/which bacteria affect the organisms in your tank the most

 

[slythy]

I should also say I purchased 2 tubs of the reef rubble. I have a bare bottom dry rock aquarium thats been wet since May this year. Never had an ugly phase and my Acro’s are growing.

 

[Paul B]

I don’t understand the argument of adding diversity for the most part. Adding diversity is the complete opposite of achieving stability. I don’t want diversity in my tanks. I want the right “things” all the time.

I don't understand this. But I am old. My 50 year old reef is very stable. So stable that I can rinse a mop in my tank and nothing will happen. I never have to quarantine and my fish never get sick. I almost never have to test and I rarely change water. What I do do is add bio diversity from the sea. "The right things all the time" is whats in the sea, not found in a bottle some Jiboni mixed up in a slop sink somewhere in Indonesia.

I take rocks from the sea (not that big one) covered in mud and swish them in a bucket for the life, parasites, diseases and anything else on them and throw it in my tank. Thats as diverse as you can get. No problems yet but the day is young.

Probably wouldn’t be healthy lol

The snakes look healthy.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I think we overestimate how much we can control the microbial population of our tanks. We may find that the microbes present are based on the specific conditions found in the tank rather than by the microbes we believe we have added to it.

 

[doubleshot00]

I should also say I purchased 2 tubs of the reef rubble. I have a bare bottom dry rock aquarium thats been wet since May this year. Never had an ugly phase and my Acro’s are growing.

I only bought one. Idk if its done anything for my tank or not. I will say my sand just started to turn brown a few weeks ago.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I don't understand this. But I am old. My 50 year old reef is very stable. So stable that I can rinse a mop in my tank and nothing will happen. I never have to quarantine and my fish never get sick. I almost never have to test and I rarely change water. What I do do is add bio diversity from the sea. "The right things all the time" is whats in the sea, not found in a bottle some Jiboni mixed up in a slop sink somewhere in Indonesia.

I take rocks from the sea (not that big one) covered in mud and swish them in a bucket for the life, parasites, diseases and anything else on them and throw it in my tank. Thats as diverse as you can get. No problems yet but the day is young.



The snakes look healthy.

That’s cool but not everyone lives by the sea so…

 

[HomebroodExotics]

i think you are missing the point. So if you have 1 strain of bacteria that can only fight x & y then z comes along and overtakes your original bacteria then its now unstable. But if you have a lot of different bacterias able to fight off the small bad things when you introduce new fish or corals then you have increased stability. Thats why I think age is such an important factor for most people because it takes time for all those bacterias to naturally find the right balance and keep everything happy. each time uou add a new coral or fish you are adding bio diversity of some sort so its good to have a strong basis to start with so it doesnt get wacky all the time.

this is why people with live sand/live rock typically have better tanks earlier than bare bottom dry rock. It takes way longer to get to that stable diversity.

It’s not the diversity that is making tanks stable. Eventually there is less diversity and just stability as time goes on. You can speed up this process by using bottled bacteria or ocean rock maybe some corals and whatever else. It’s all going to have bacteria and it needs to stabilize. If you add a new strain of bacteria to your aquarium every other day that will give you diversity right? But is that stability? No.

 

[doubleshot00]

That’s cool but not everyone lives by the sea so…

I do and i still won’t put anything from the ocean in my tank.

 

[FourPawz]

It's so very tempting though!

 

[paintman]

this is why people with live sand/live rock typically have better tanks earlier than bare bottom dry rock. It takes way longer to get to that stable diversity.

You have data to back up your hypothesis?

 

[slythy]

It’s not the diversity that is making tanks stable. Eventually there is less diversity and just stability as time goes on. You can speed up this process by using bottled bacteria or ocean rock maybe some corals and whatever else. It’s all going to have bacteria and it needs to stabilize. If you add a new strain of bacteria to your aquarium every other day that will give you diversity right? But is that stability? No.

I think you slightly contradict yourself in this post. Adding a coral or ocean rock is forsure going to add to the diversity of bacteria each time.

i think diversity may be the wrong word. I doubt you are adding tons of new strains everytime you add something to a established tank of things you dont have. But the issue you have is if you are dry sand dry rock then getting all those “correct” bacteria is hard to establish first. Whatever you add via bottle is the original dominate but once you start adding fish and coral other things can win causing the uglies to happen. There are a few bacteria that make up the majority of the population and theres probably thousands of others that are in there in small quantities but the few you need in the portion they should be is whats stable.

you need the diversity to get to stable thats why old tanks are stable, they already have everything

 

[slythy]

You have data to back up your hypothesis?

actual scientific studies that ive done and collected hard numbers for? No…

its a pretty well established theory that dry rock bare bottom tanks do worse than live rock live sand tanks early on and take longer to stabilize. They both get to the same place eventually.

the sterile environment with significantly less surface area for bacteria leads to some different struggles than a tank with ocean bacteria and lots of surface area.

Its easy to ask for data but if you think about it for a minute it makes sense with what we understand about our little eco systems.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I think you slightly contradict yourself in this post. Adding a coral or ocean rock is forsure going to add to the diversity of bacteria each time.

i think diversity may be the wrong word. I doubt you are adding tons of new strains everytime you add something to a established tank of things you dont have. But the issue you have is if you are dry sand dry rock then getting all those “correct” bacteria is hard to establish first. Whatever you add via bottle is the original dominate but once you start adding fish and coral other things can win causing the uglies to happen. There are a few bacteria that make up the majority of the population and theres probably thousands of others that are in there in small quantities but the few you need in the portion they should be is whats stable.

you need the diversity to get to stable thats why old tanks are stable, they already have everything

I'm not adding new coral to my tank every day. Consistency equals stability. Determining what bacteria you have at stability is not in your control besides introducing the bacteria and culturing the bacteria in your aquarium (feeding them) which is depending upon what you feed to your aquarium. (spoiler alert, no one is feeding their aquariums like what is actually in the ocean)

 

[slythy]

I'm not adding new coral to my tank every day. Consistency equals stability. Determining what bacteria you have at stability is not in your control besides introducing the bacteria and culturing the bacteria in your aquarium (feeding them) which is depending upon what you feed to your aquarium. (spoiler alert, no one is feeding their aquariums like what is actually in the ocean)

Id agree with that. I dont think knowing what bacterias you have is very useful, just knowing you have added enough and overtime it all stabilizes is what matters.

but at this point I am adding corals weekly lol

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Id agree with that. I dont think knowing what bacterias you have is very useful, just knowing you have added enough and overtime it all stabilizes is what matters.

but at this point I am adding corals weekly lol

I agree that’s why I think it matters less about what bottle you use and more about using a quality product (hopefully), consistently. Keep adding the corals! Don’t need to wait for perfection. It’s a moving target.

 

[Paul B]

That’s cool but not everyone lives by the sea so…

I know. Many people really need to move.

But for the first 46 years I didn't live right near the sea. I didn't live to far from it so I always tried to use something from there but I used to put garden soil in my tank for the bacteria. I didn't invent that, it was Robert Straughn "The Father of Salt Water Fish Keeping" It seemed to work and I still try to put mud or rocks in there with bacteria and pods.

I also use real seawater now because I want the bacteria and parasites as well as any other pathogens I can get so my fish stay immune. And so far, they are.