Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread
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OP
OP
It's a known forum loading issue i get em occasionally too
This is how I see our work summarized, thank you for posting as well
-the sand turns out not to be anyone's breakpoint in being able to consistently filter the water. Meaning specifically, removing all sand at once in any tank using normal amounts of live rock doesn't leave the system short of surface area. It means you can thoroughly clean the system All at once vs increments, which means you're exporting waste vs mixing it.
-there isn't a bunch of varied life in a newer sandbed for macro life you can see without a scope. All reef surfaces are teeming under a microscope, but the workhorse worms and pods really aren't part of the average sandbed, the kind that wiggle about in your hand as you look at a scoop of your sand. If they're working and present, our thread won't be needed.
Just above we had a rare balanced, aged DSB and elected not to clean it. I'd always enjoy updates on that system~
What macro life forms are present will reseed off live rock given time for the average system with nothing fancy in the bed, it's ok to rinse a bed with tap so that it runs clear as they're typically just waste + invader.
This is why bare bottom tanks don't crash, what's in the bed is in excess of the needs of the tank but if a sandbed full of varied life is wanted, our tanks can be trained to handle that bioloading too... this thread here is a pattern study work thread, what happens when a hundred aquariums all run the same method and compare outcome notes
- being cloud free is a whole tank endeavor. If someone is taking the time to work the sand, they should take time to swish all rocks in saltwater bucket of water to rid the crevices of detritus. We are preserving pods and worms there by using fresh saltwater, the bed itself doesn't matter. Rinse, remove, replace, all the same just be thorough.
-no doubt given enough time and self maturation days, the bed will cycle out into another capitalist. Alternating generations.... this is where passions diverge big-time in the hobby. The naturalists say you -have- to wait through the natural cycles, being invaded at times. We simply show how to not be invaded if you elect for that counter option.
Hey if you can pls document all tank surgery moves it's still pretty rare stuff to be collecting, thanks for the work and contribution.
Live rocks do not take on more bacteria in the absence of sand, they self regulate independent of sand. No ramp down time is required
They're excess surface area, even a few pounds, for the average fish bioload we want, which is why we're getting away with sandbed surgery here at no cost to the aquariums. Keeping the same #pounds of live rock in the setup is key, the sand can be cleaned if it misbehaves and we like to clean it all at once, harshly clean
This is how I see our work summarized, thank you for posting as well
-the sand turns out not to be anyone's breakpoint in being able to consistently filter the water. Meaning specifically, removing all sand at once in any tank using normal amounts of live rock doesn't leave the system short of surface area. It means you can thoroughly clean the system All at once vs increments, which means you're exporting waste vs mixing it.
-there isn't a bunch of varied life in a newer sandbed for macro life you can see without a scope. All reef surfaces are teeming under a microscope, but the workhorse worms and pods really aren't part of the average sandbed, the kind that wiggle about in your hand as you look at a scoop of your sand. If they're working and present, our thread won't be needed.
Just above we had a rare balanced, aged DSB and elected not to clean it. I'd always enjoy updates on that system~
What macro life forms are present will reseed off live rock given time for the average system with nothing fancy in the bed, it's ok to rinse a bed with tap so that it runs clear as they're typically just waste + invader.
This is why bare bottom tanks don't crash, what's in the bed is in excess of the needs of the tank but if a sandbed full of varied life is wanted, our tanks can be trained to handle that bioloading too... this thread here is a pattern study work thread, what happens when a hundred aquariums all run the same method and compare outcome notes
- being cloud free is a whole tank endeavor. If someone is taking the time to work the sand, they should take time to swish all rocks in saltwater bucket of water to rid the crevices of detritus. We are preserving pods and worms there by using fresh saltwater, the bed itself doesn't matter. Rinse, remove, replace, all the same just be thorough.
-no doubt given enough time and self maturation days, the bed will cycle out into another capitalist. Alternating generations.... this is where passions diverge big-time in the hobby. The naturalists say you -have- to wait through the natural cycles, being invaded at times. We simply show how to not be invaded if you elect for that counter option.
Hey if you can pls document all tank surgery moves it's still pretty rare stuff to be collecting, thanks for the work and contribution.
Live rocks do not take on more bacteria in the absence of sand, they self regulate independent of sand. No ramp down time is required
They're excess surface area, even a few pounds, for the average fish bioload we want, which is why we're getting away with sandbed surgery here at no cost to the aquariums. Keeping the same #pounds of live rock in the setup is key, the sand can be cleaned if it misbehaves and we like to clean it all at once, harshly clean
Last edited:
Marcom12
Active Member
I have lots of pods of various kinds all over in my tank... Lots make little burrows in the sand. I see lots in my rocks also. I know they will regenerate, but even with that said I'd like to keep as many as possible lol.
So recommend would be take out all sand at once?
Can I use a turkey baster to remove detritus from rocks?
What's a good easy way to get the sand out to clean?
So recommend would be take out all sand at once?
Can I use a turkey baster to remove detritus from rocks?
What's a good easy way to get the sand out to clean?
OP
OP
Whatever you're willing to do that's most thorough and opposite of the norm is the way, using a baster mixes cloudy water about for partial removal
We're for full taking tanks apart and cleaning + 100% water change. That doesn't mean everyone is willing or practical in doing that based on tank size... It means that's the only safe method because everything else works in partial increments and preserves detritus for removal in steps/increments vs all at once.
That's the reason so many tank home moves have been featured, they have to access everything just to move it. Hesitation breakthrough due to property relocation... we just intercept as a time to clean/de cloud and document how to move the tank without a recycle. To any degree you can copy that level of cleaning you're likely to get the same after pics. If you have to work in partials to preserve special macro sand bed life or due to tank #gallons then results on target begin to vary.
We're stating by practice in this thread that cleaning the organics out of a system occasionally by force, completely, like an occasional trip to the dentist, has positive effects on a reef tank. The #1 reason people won't access the tank for cleaning isn't due the number of gallons or special life, it's fear of bacterial upset. We've mythbustered that into a complete busted myth, the bacteria tolerate anything we do. I drained my whole reef for thirty minutes on page one and still have fanworms, pods and micro brittles by scores
We're for full taking tanks apart and cleaning + 100% water change. That doesn't mean everyone is willing or practical in doing that based on tank size... It means that's the only safe method because everything else works in partial increments and preserves detritus for removal in steps/increments vs all at once.
That's the reason so many tank home moves have been featured, they have to access everything just to move it. Hesitation breakthrough due to property relocation... we just intercept as a time to clean/de cloud and document how to move the tank without a recycle. To any degree you can copy that level of cleaning you're likely to get the same after pics. If you have to work in partials to preserve special macro sand bed life or due to tank #gallons then results on target begin to vary.
We're stating by practice in this thread that cleaning the organics out of a system occasionally by force, completely, like an occasional trip to the dentist, has positive effects on a reef tank. The #1 reason people won't access the tank for cleaning isn't due the number of gallons or special life, it's fear of bacterial upset. We've mythbustered that into a complete busted myth, the bacteria tolerate anything we do. I drained my whole reef for thirty minutes on page one and still have fanworms, pods and micro brittles by scores
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Marcom12
Active Member
So if I remove everything... Clean... Reinstall....
What is the future maintenance for tank? Remove everything every week? Every month?
Or just stir sand daily? 3x a week? Once a week?
OP
OP
Gotta draw that conclusion from the work. Opinions vary on sandbed rinsing but we hope to show clean beds work great
Reach out in message here to prior movers, let us know what you search out.
In my opinion it's too variable to answer. If one person rip cleans their bed and drops their whole fish bioload to one clownfish, that has different cleaning needs in twenty months than someone who does the typical add + go through fish over time.
These are questions really to ask sandbed proponents since the point of having a DSB is not to rinse it. If you tell them you're invaded you'll hear to wait it out a little longer, all we can do is log the surgeries for outcome and seek updates where possible of people who did not wait it out. In the last ten pages we've had a 9 month update that was all positive... this indicates his export system is working well to not need much interim care, the initial bed cleaning was only the reset. We still have options to clean a system and then buy pods back to restock, if pods are required instant back upon setup
Basically I would agree the tank work data supports a strong initial clean then stirring as preventative. Whatever microfauna survives that is secondary and awesome positive for the system.
When it's fully balanced and worm tracked/peak maturity we like to work topically to preserve the bed until something forces it to be cleaned-like a home move. Transporting those beds means mixing strata vs keeping it separate... clean is better when relocating.
Reach out in message here to prior movers, let us know what you search out.
In my opinion it's too variable to answer. If one person rip cleans their bed and drops their whole fish bioload to one clownfish, that has different cleaning needs in twenty months than someone who does the typical add + go through fish over time.
These are questions really to ask sandbed proponents since the point of having a DSB is not to rinse it. If you tell them you're invaded you'll hear to wait it out a little longer, all we can do is log the surgeries for outcome and seek updates where possible of people who did not wait it out. In the last ten pages we've had a 9 month update that was all positive... this indicates his export system is working well to not need much interim care, the initial bed cleaning was only the reset. We still have options to clean a system and then buy pods back to restock, if pods are required instant back upon setup
Basically I would agree the tank work data supports a strong initial clean then stirring as preventative. Whatever microfauna survives that is secondary and awesome positive for the system.
When it's fully balanced and worm tracked/peak maturity we like to work topically to preserve the bed until something forces it to be cleaned-like a home move. Transporting those beds means mixing strata vs keeping it separate... clean is better when relocating.
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Marcom12
Active Member
Well I understand one answer doesn't fit all. [emoji16]
I guess I'm looking for a basic idea of what I should do.
In my mind I picture a big clean. Then daily or semi daily sand stirs... I don't want a traditional DSB, I thought I did, but I don't think I do now. So I'm looking at wanting about two inches of sand. I also don't feel I need a pristine white sand bed. Just not one holding alot of detritus.
I think I'll remove and clean sand... And clean rock... Then semi daily sand stirs and see what happens?
I guess I'm looking for a basic idea of what I should do.
In my mind I picture a big clean. Then daily or semi daily sand stirs... I don't want a traditional DSB, I thought I did, but I don't think I do now. So I'm looking at wanting about two inches of sand. I also don't feel I need a pristine white sand bed. Just not one holding alot of detritus.
I think I'll remove and clean sand... And clean rock... Then semi daily sand stirs and see what happens?
OP
OP
Yes agreed that sounds safe, I’m picturing how detritus might get welled up in the work and it seems pretty clean therefore not harmful for the tank, the goal is removing some waste along with a hiding source it’s solid plan.
Marcom12
Active Member
Yes, tank is essentially pretty clean... I've had some invader issues... But nothing huge.
I'm mostly trying to setup for future and would like a clean start.
Marcom12
Active Member
Is that a statement or a question.
Marcom12
Active Member
I've never removed sand so... Not a clueIt was a rhetorical question, since I thought the answer was so obvious. (If you must know
But thanks
Just an update from three weeks ago, I'm still scrubbing rocks and siphoning sand regularly on my nano about 6 months in. I was out of town for a week and came back to quite a lot of cyano and a some GHA, I only had my wife feed once and only three pellets so it wasn't an overfeeding tank-sitter. I'm thinking I need to add an aquaclear for some mechanical filtration because the sand is collecting more junk than I care for right now (even though I have a very low bioload and don't feed much). Last night I scooped about half the sand out and agitated it in a bucket and kept pouring off the detritus/cyano and adding more clean saltwater and repeating a few times. The cyano has definitely been preferring the sandbed so hopefully this slows it down.
xiholdtruex
Well-Known Member
Keep at it it will eventually go away. The issue with partial cleaning is the detritus will still be there to fuel the cyano. Had the same issue for months. Until I completly tore it apart and made sure sand was spot less it kept coming back. I am surprised how much detritus the rocks get even if you periodically shoot them with a turkey baister.
Yeah I get that, but we are talking about a 6 month old tank that has been fed 1 cube of frozen and about 20 pellets since it began while also getting a very heavy water change regimen and regular sand siphoning and rock scrubbing (once a week), so me pulling out 100% of the sand isn't as critical as a 3 year-old tank with a heavy bioload I think.
OP
OP
Depends on how bad you want the invasion gone. The other benefit is fixing sb compounding before it manifests as a massive invasion, or heavy detritus which is riskier dive work than light detritus work
Cleaning now vs packed with coral is decent timing, practice and less on the line as entry surgery. Not that it has to be that way, but these are the enduring benefits of full vs partial cleaning.
We tend to work in full increments bc it's safe, the variation of cycling/lose some tanks happens in any partial work.
we do full surgery to set aside from the norm and track associated outcome of fully different action than the masses use
Still happy to have any form of sandbed access updates in any degree, we study the impacts of disturbing sand in a hobby where each one of us at one time current or past has been told firmly not to disturb it. Blusop's white sandbed method is linked a few pages back and features weekly cleaning by stirring up detritus before it compounds to be cast up into the tank and removed by filters, and a tiny portion eaten by reef animals as well. All degrees of work are ok, but since detritus has no value to us sinked up under our displays the full work jobs get total safety guarantee the tanks will not recycle or die as a whole item due to surgery.
The #1 undisputed way to move, upgrade, downgrade, uninvade, transfer or perform disassembly surgery on a reef tank is to totally clean it while it's parted out. The deepest cleaning is the safest mode due to detritus rejection. Again, the very opposite of what we were told about sandbeds turns out to be the number one way to make them safe during access, and filtration bacteria literally tolerate any form of cleaning you throw at them. Agreed an early system isn't loaded with risk, I would still rip clean it if possible especially if it's never had the sand pre rinsed at the start
A great time to rip clean a reef tank is when one can reach in the sand, grab a handful and drop and cause problems. Then or before
Cleaning now vs packed with coral is decent timing, practice and less on the line as entry surgery. Not that it has to be that way, but these are the enduring benefits of full vs partial cleaning.
We tend to work in full increments bc it's safe, the variation of cycling/lose some tanks happens in any partial work.
we do full surgery to set aside from the norm and track associated outcome of fully different action than the masses use
Still happy to have any form of sandbed access updates in any degree, we study the impacts of disturbing sand in a hobby where each one of us at one time current or past has been told firmly not to disturb it. Blusop's white sandbed method is linked a few pages back and features weekly cleaning by stirring up detritus before it compounds to be cast up into the tank and removed by filters, and a tiny portion eaten by reef animals as well. All degrees of work are ok, but since detritus has no value to us sinked up under our displays the full work jobs get total safety guarantee the tanks will not recycle or die as a whole item due to surgery.
The #1 undisputed way to move, upgrade, downgrade, uninvade, transfer or perform disassembly surgery on a reef tank is to totally clean it while it's parted out. The deepest cleaning is the safest mode due to detritus rejection. Again, the very opposite of what we were told about sandbeds turns out to be the number one way to make them safe during access, and filtration bacteria literally tolerate any form of cleaning you throw at them. Agreed an early system isn't loaded with risk, I would still rip clean it if possible especially if it's never had the sand pre rinsed at the start
A great time to rip clean a reef tank is when one can reach in the sand, grab a handful and drop and cause problems. Then or before
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Marcom12
Active Member
Update
So, I have had all my sand removed for a week now. I see tiny Tufts of hair algea on bottom bare glass, and the typical green "dust" on display surfaces. I have not tested water yet. And I am not running a skimmer at this point. There seems to be a fine layer of silt on bottom also and maybe a 1/4 cup of gravel has appeared, I'm assuming from rock areas.
I had about 5 individual bubble algea before and now about 3 and they are smaller now.
I'm still in process of cleaning the sand... I'm cleaning it extremely well ... As I do not think I rinsed it well enough when I first put it in.
So, I have had all my sand removed for a week now. I see tiny Tufts of hair algea on bottom bare glass, and the typical green "dust" on display surfaces. I have not tested water yet. And I am not running a skimmer at this point. There seems to be a fine layer of silt on bottom also and maybe a 1/4 cup of gravel has appeared, I'm assuming from rock areas.
I had about 5 individual bubble algea before and now about 3 and they are smaller now.
I'm still in process of cleaning the sand... I'm cleaning it extremely well ... As I do not think I rinsed it well enough when I first put it in.
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