Old Tank Syndrome, A Myth?

[Sm51498]

I was watching the BRS recordings of the MACNA talks (here:http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...ligent-reefkeeping-by-joe-yaiullo-macna-2016/) and Joe Yaiullo said something potentially controversial, that old tank syndrome does not exist.

He goes on to say that really what we see is short term thinking and laziness. I'm inclined to believe he is right. It certainly squares with my experience that the things that are the least convenient are the things we avoid. These could certainly add up to be "old tank syndrome". It is certainly a better explanation than some magical, undetectable balance shift that kills everything.

What does everyone think?

 

[Animagus]

I can't put it as eloquently as another member did one time, but "everybody wants a pet these days but nobody wants to clean up after them it seems." With so many threads on a CUC, I could see how LARS exists.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/10/aafeature

 

[Joey waid]

It's like old car syndrome. Sure it will get you to work and back, but a new one smells and looks way better...

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It is certainly a better explanation than some magical, undetectable balance shift

I think part of his point was, in your reef there will always be these shifts. Detectable or otherwise.
(ooh and i was in the audience SQUEEEEEEE!!!)

 

[Sm51498]

I think part of his point was, in your reef there will always be these shifts. Detectable or otherwise.
(ooh and i was in the audience SQUEEEEEEE!!!)

Right. Part and parcel of that is more often than not, that the balance shift isn't intrinsic to the system but the lack of input by the owner. When we have unexplained errors that cannot be replicated in my business (data storage), often the factor to blame is the loose nut behind the keyboard.

 

[brandon429]

I have beaten old tank syndrome permanently so ill call it an option, to have it is to directly choose to cause it by some sort of reversible inaction. my reef has an indefinite biological lifespan given continued export as is done...hardware luck etc. OTS can be slayed by using the new approaches that are not 1998 calling. good thread topic. OTS is caused by old school reefing.

the way I did it was to never let algae plug up my rocks and to keep detritus out of the tank as a long term storage detail, solved. what I do to my 6 inch dsb is against the rules guiding the keeping of deep sand beds... I keep it detritus clean, not stored up and hands off

work prevents the ots symptoms and knowing what boundaries for work we have in the living reef is key imo

 

[Paul B]

. OTS is caused by old school reefing.

Oh No. My Reefing is older than Old School. I'm Doomed. :eek:

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

that the balance shift isn't intrinsic to the system

I believe it is. its a living thing.

often the factor to blame is the loose nut behind the keyboard.

agreed.


but doing nothing or doing it halfway is where the problems come in.

OTS is caused by old school reefing.

or by those who believe that's what the old scool was saying. IMO, it wasn't what they said.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Oh No. My Reefing is older than Old School. I'm Doomed. :eek:

Yea. Pretty much.

 

[brandon429]

Paul, hardlyanyone in reefing other than you is doing RUGF so we should modify it to say traditional old school, which is how much poo can I permanently store up under my rocks while installing any number of offsets to handle whats leaking, is the eventual cause of ots :)

yes, blowing detritus up and out from the sb is old school -freshwater- tanking lol. we are both getting detritus out by design it seems. I tap rinse out my whole sandbed to make the whole reef live indefinitely, until nerf ball strike apocal

 

[Sm51498]

I believe it is. its a living thing.

To clarify, I agree. Shifts in the balance are intrinsic to reef keeping. However, generally the reason the balance shifts are not checked is bad husbandry or lack there of. Which, of course, is what you are saying.

 

[Paul B]

Paul, hardlyanyone in reefing other than you is doing RUGF

Yeah, I noticed that. I wonder why that is. :rolleyes:

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

But in all seriousness, ok some seriousness, ok well a little seriousness, when you spend the time listening to the ACTUAL experts, the real deal guys and girls who have spent thier lives dong this, they say the same thing.
And its not to never clean you sand or that you tank will magically live for years because you have the best of every piece of gear. its not. they say its a challenging hobby that takes work. you have to scrub things. clean them. look for stuff and be surprised daily at what you find.

Folks cant seem to be able to figure out why @Paul B has so much success, well he CLEANS HIS TANK.
He also has "failures" too, like all of us. I prefer, as Paul I think and the room full of scientists I sat in there at Macna, to think of these failures as learning.

 

[madweazl]

I've never encountered "OTS" but my oldest tank only made it approximately 11 years. That tank had a HOB skimmer and nothing else. I did vacuum the course crush coral substrate (roughly 1") that was used occasionally (less than 10 times over that 11 years I imagine). I dont ever remember blowing out the crevices of the rock but it may have happened. When we moved and tore down the tank (given to a buddy from work) there were no funky smells, "mini cycle," or other weirdness. Guess I was just lucky.

Edit: To be clear, this tank didnt go maintenance free, I just didnt do a ton to it.

 

[Paul B]

So you mean like when my tank was taken over by this asparagus farm was a bad thing? :eek:

 

[brandon429]

agreed w all so far is good discuss

a parrotfish would have called that a great takeover, and then began munching and adding to your sandbed depth.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yeah, I noticed that. I wonder why that is. :rolleyes:

than you is doing RUGF

unless your raising NPS and azoox in a lab and controlling the bacterial population for feeding and with carbon dosing like in a few research facilities. I mean there's that.:rolleyes:
Don't tell Paul though.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Guess I was just lucky.

or you did it right.

 

[Paul B]

Yes Animagus, it does tend to put me to sleep. :)

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

So you mean like when my tank was taken over by this asparagus farm was a bad thing? :eek:

that's easy. For Asparagus use olive oil(surfactant) salt and balsamic vinegar(carbon dosing)