Only Care About Reliability - APEX or GHL

[stiffljp]

I've had both and sold the GHL because of reliability issues. Currently have all Apex. I personally had a very bad experience with their customer service which confirmed my decision to sell. With that said, it was years ago so I'm sure the product has improved.

2 things to consider in this type of questioning format, I would hazard a strong guess that Apex has significantly more marketshare in the US and subsequently your more likely to hear of problems. Additionally, one aspect of reliability is availability of parts/service. Does GHL have the same support and parts availability of Apex. I don't know the answer but something to factor in

 

[KenO]

I've had both and sold the GHL because of reliability issues. Currently have all Apex. I personally had a very bad experience with their customer service which confirmed my decision to sell. With that said, it was years ago so I'm sure the product has improved.

2 things to consider in this type of questioning format, I would hazard a strong guess that Apex has significantly more marketshare in the US and subsequently your more likely to hear of problems. Additionally, one aspect of reliability is availability of parts/service. Does GHL have the same support and parts availability of Apex. I don't know the answer but something to factor in

GHL now has a location in NC for both sales of products in the USA as well as a service center. When I needed service for my KHD, I received a quick response from GHL. Now my service occurred during this virus mess. So I’m assuming that lead to some of the delays in getting my unit serviced and returned to me. In the end it was repaired. I also experienced a similar delay in getting my EcoTech Versa pump serviced and replaced. Since they were forced to shutdown, it took over a month to get a replacement.

 

[Derrick Picker]

Hey everyone! Episode 1 premieres tomorrow.

 

[KenO]

Hey everyone! Episode 1 premieres tomorrow.

I didn’t watch your previous video, I had a hard time with it. Do you have an outline of what you are planning to do? Without something like that I’m concerned it could digress into something not worth watching.

 

[Derrick Picker]

Yes I do. Why do you say that? My previous video was a live stream. What was so hard about it? I am having Vinny from GHL on my stream Friday to teach me how to program it live.

 

[Aaronhome27]

I didn’t watch your previous video, I had a hard time with it. Do you have an outline of what you are planning to do? Without something like that I’m concerned it could digress into something not worth watching.

What do you mean had a hard time with it.... Lol.

 

[KenO]

Yes I do. Why do you say that? My previous video was a live stream. What was so hard about it? I am having Vinny from GHL on my stream Friday to teach me how to program it live.

Don’t take this wrong, but it was boring. I watched a few minutes of it and turned it off.

 

[Derrick Picker]

Sounds good. I can not please everyone. I have a lot more videos and streams.

 

[this is me]

I’m running 9+ years on my profilux 3ex.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Don’t take this wrong, but it was boring. I watched a few minutes of it and turned it off.

Same thing here... definitely no hard feelings... I stopped watching less than a minute in as well.

 

[Derrick Picker]

Thanks for your input.

 

[robbyg]

Yes I do. Why do you say that? My previous video was a live stream. What was so hard about it? I am having Vinny from GHL on my stream Friday to teach me how to program it live.

I thought the video was OK. I just think that you should not have live streamed it but instead gotten use to the Profilux for a few weeks and then made an edited video. I know what it's like when you pick up a new controller for the first time. One of my sideline businesses use to be writing software and even with all that experience I look at Apex code and go what the heck is this. The code feels like half of the needed commands are missing and several of the existing commands make no sense at all. I got a different yet similar experience with the Profilux, at first it just made no sense and then I started to understand it but luckily I was not getting confused by my past programming experiences like I do with the Apex. I am not sure if that all makes sense?

I think if your going to do a video making a comparison like this I would either spend several weeks getting very versed in the Profilux which is probably not practical for you unless you plan on using it on a tank and buying a ton load of accessories OR you could create a written script of several programming and usage scenarios and give it to Vinny so that he can be prepared and on your side you prepare a matching way of doing whats on the script with the Apex. This is probably the only way to get a true picture of how they stack up against each other in terms of programming.

Anyway I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[ReefBeta]

I never use GHL, and to be honest I have no interests in trying, from just looking at its crappy programming interface. I'd rather go back to Reef Angel and program with arduio instead.

But I don't like my Apex either. Reliability wise, most things still working in a year. But the Trident failed miserably. The Ca and Mg reading are getting way out of accuracy that that I'm only looking at the alkalinity result now. It's now set to only test 2 times a day to get 2 kh reading. Also the flow sensor stopped giving reading couple days ago, bought last black Friday. Haven't got chance to check what's wrong with it yet. I only have 4 modules, and two of them are having problem, within the first year. That don't really give me confidences of its reliability, especially given its premium over other controller like Reef Angel. I used Reef Angel for 4 year prior, had yet to get a hardware issue. But the main problem I have with Apex is its programming. It's super limited that you can't even program an I/O button to start the feeding mode. What people did is to duplicate the feeding mode function in outlet control instead, not calling the Apex's feeding mode. Then also there're not such thing as reusable code. If you have several outlets want to stop for the button feed mode, you will have to copy that over. Another one is the famous virtual outlet. The whole reason of it is because it can't support a simple logic AND statement in the code. So every time you want an AND, you need a virtual switch. Not to mention the lack of ability to simply silence an alert. Duplicating code and overly complicating implementation are the number one cause maintainability of software, and that's exactly the problem of Apex.

Just couple weeks ago melevsreef shared his story of disabling his skimmer float switch while forgetting to turn off the skimmer got it flooded his fish room with skimmate. He put that blame to him on forgetting, IMO that's a terrible mindset towards an automation system. The goal of automation is so that people don't have to remember every tiny detail of the system. The system design that shift the burden of correctness to the operator is an unreliable design, especially when the proper design solution is so obvious and common. Honestly GHL feels the same way as they don't even bother to invest in modernizing their UI from the 90s.

The way I see it, Apex is too lazy or incompetent to modernize their core control paradigm, or didn't understand the importance of minimizing dependencies of user correctness to reliability, or maybe even not putting reliability as top priority. That don't give me much confidence of their product in terms of reliability.

 

[Derrick Picker]

I thought the video was OK. I just think that you should not have live streamed it but instead gotten use to the Profilux for a few weeks and then made an edited video. I know what it's like when you pick up a new controller for the first time. One of my sideline businesses use to be writing software and even with all that experience I look at Apex code and go what the heck is this. The code feels like half of the needed commands are missing and several of the existing commands make no sense at all. I got a different yet similar experience with the Profilux, at first it just made no sense and then I started to understand it but luckily I was not getting confused by my past programming experiences like I do with the Apex. I am not sure if that all makes sense?

I think if your going to do a video making a comparison like this I would either spend several weeks getting very versed in the Profilux which is probably not practical for you unless you plan on using it on a tank and buying a ton load of accessories OR you could create a written script of several programming and usage scenarios and give it to Vinny so that he can be prepared and on your side you prepare a matching way of doing whats on the script with the Apex. This is probably the only way to get a true picture of how they stack up against each other in terms of programming.

Anyway I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Thank you for your input. I think you folks might be missing something here. The live stream was my FIRST time ever looking at the GHL after doing a day or so of research. It was meant to show my subs what they would be getting when they first bought it if they had never seen it before. I will of course be learning and getting well verse on the GHL before i get into the programming on my episode series. I am a computer programmer so it will become easy once I am given the proper tools to get started. I found it difficult to find tutorials online so that is what I will be providing to my subs.

Furthermore, that is why I am having Vinny on my next stream so he can help me out along with my viewers from last week's stream. I am giving it a fair and honest review in comparison to the Apex which no one has done on YouTube from what I can see.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

@zsxking,

Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that the trident relied on accurate calcium, magnesium readings to provide and accurate alkalinity as well. I was under the impression that some algorithm took into account the 3 tests to limit any chance for outliers. If one is providing false readings then all are skewed.

I share a lot of your sentiment about coding. The virtual outlet was a fix for a lot of that, and opens the door for many coding options. Although it becomes complicated real fast but makes it possible to have a momentary push button initiate a feed mode, all it needs is a "min time" statement to be added to the VO and then have the equipment point to that VO.

and in melevs case he could've set up a VO with a "When On > XXX:00 Then OFF" statement so that he didn't have to remember to turn it back on. Point being your only limitations are how much time and effort you put into learning various ways to solve an issue.

I have a 2 fold point about apex coding, 1: it's quite possible to program an apex to do what you want BUT 2: the problem becomes that it gets extremely complicated and confusing real fast. And for those versed in coding, it goes against what you were taught. And for the average joe, you're needing to become an expert in this weird coding to go beyond "on/off" statements.

For me, once I wrapped my mind around the foundation of their pseudo coding, I got it. And I've became the resident apex programmer in my area. I stayed up until 11pm last night on the phone of a person I never met programming his apex remotely. He wanted some very complicated tasks that were far beyond the realm of what apex was initially intended. And to be honest some of it was outside the box and am curious whether or not it worked as planned, I expect to hear back from hom today to find out. Hehe

 

[User1]

So, what about that ford guy that never owned a BMW and goes on the ford site to admire the BMW for its engineering dominance?

I'd toss them the key to a GT350, a helmet, and then tell them to come back and say that

In any case most hobbyists will try and answer without bias. Some will not. It is a time thing in my opinion. Takes time to write something positive or send a note when things are going well. When things are not it is at the top of your mind or to do list. Higher priority gets your time so easier to post feedback in that situation.

How many of you here drive a car? When was the last time you emailed the manufacture? See what I mean?

I'll answer my question. 3 weeks ago I sent Ford an email to say that I was thankful they had overlapped carpet under the seat interesting enough. I was returning my lavender tang, I had to stop quickly when another car went through a red light, and the bucket it was in flipped over. Bag opened spilling some the saltwater which then rushed under the seat. Got the fish back, water what I could, and after I got back from the LFS started to clean. Under the seat the carpet was actually overlapping for lack of a better word so none of the saltwater hit the floor boards. After I cleaned it all up, steam cleaned it, I sent a note to Ford. They replied back thanking me for my time.

Edit: You would toss them the M3 key. I'm assuming the ford guy never hot lapped a car on a track

 

[KenO]

Thank you for your input. I think you folks might be missing something here. The live stream was my FIRST time ever looking at the GHL after doing a day or so of research. It was meant to show my subs what they would be getting when they first bought it if they had never seen it before. I will of course be learning and getting well verse on the GHL before i get into the programming on my episode series. I am a computer programmer so it will become easy once I am given the proper tools to get started. I found it difficult to find tutorials online so that is what I will be providing to my subs.

Furthermore, that is why I am having Vinny on my next stream so he can help me out along with my viewers from last week's stream. I am giving it a fair and honest review in comparison to the Apex which no one has done on YouTube from what I can see.

Talk about putting your audience down. Your subs. Really. Based on that alone, I am finished watching any of your videos.

 

[lmm1967]

Talk about putting your audience down. Your subs. Really. Based on that alone, I am finished watching any of your videos.

Since he is referencing Youtube - I would assume subs = subscribers. Nothing negative in any way

 

[KenO]

Since he is referencing Youtube - I would assume subs = subscribers. Nothing negative in any way

Thanks. I apologize then. I’m not a YouTube follower or subscriber as you call them. I would still like to see some written outline for these videos.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I'd toss them the key to a GT350, a helmet, and then tell them to come back and say that

Edit: You would toss them the M3 key. I'm assuming the ford guy never hot lapped a car on a track

Not that I don't admire the look of the GT350 or the fact that it was built in a time for a particular reason to dominate a specific type of race.

That's simply a difference in values. If I want a race car, a GT350 or M3 wouldn't be my first choice. But when choosing a vehicle for domestic use, getting to the next stop light as quick as possible isn't top on my priority list. Reliability and longevity is in the 1 and 2 slot. For me that boils down to 1 thing, tighter machined tolerances throughout the drivetrain (attention given to engendering).

The american vehicle doesn't usually fit those criteria. American vehicle manufacturers cater to those that want to be first to the next stop light, or a truck with lots of torque. Which is convenient a handful of times in its life, and the rest of its life as an aerodynamically inefficient gas guzzler.

Same should go for a reef controller, reliability and longevity (and easy to program hehe) If you can't provide that... then eventually someone somewhere will come along that does. Let's see that GT350 of reef controllers. One built for a specific reason, to dominate the controllers of it's time. Hehe