Opinion/rant: Sump designs are overcomplicated

[Slocke]

This is the sump of my last tank. It is a simple and cheap 45-gallon tank. It had no compartments, no filter socks, no [insert third thing here when you think of a third thing]. And you know what? It kept my water clean, my nitrates at around 5ppm, easy to access, and my salinity stable with the ATO. Yes, it's a bit of an eyesore, and I would have preferred to have kept it in a cabinet, but my stand didn't have a cabinet. The concept is simple. The mangrove and caulerpa removed the nitrate and phosphate, the skimmer took care of the fats, and the sand and rock allowed for bacterial filtration and grew pods for my fish.

I recently upgraded to a fancy tankwith a fancy sump. It's got like five compartments. A place for the water to enter, a filter sock section, a skimmer section, a refugium section, and a return pump section. Yet, it is doing so much worse at keeping my nutrients down! Last I tested, my nitrates were 50!

My issues are as follows.

1. The first two compartments are just for the filter socks, and filter socks are a lot more hassle than helpful. They collect a small amount of detritus, get clogged, and then the water diverts over the baffle, bypassing the socks. This not only renders the socks useless once a little dirty but it also affects the water level of the rest of the sump which stops the ATO doing its job properly.
2. The lack of refugium space. So far in my reefing journey, the only thing that has consistently worked at keeping the microorganisms happy and the nutrients down is a refugium. Yet this gives far more space to the almost useless filter socks and even more space to the skimmer. I have space for one small rock (yes, I added another to the skimmer section and one to the return pump section) and one rock is not nearly enough! I used to grow enough macroalgae to sell it to my LFS every month. I have not sold him any since upgrading because I can't grow enough.
3. Finally, there is the ATO system for this. I use a 5-gallon bucket. The little plastic container with the float valve is useless. First, it is attached firmly in place and needs a wrench to remove, which makes it a PITA to fill. Second, it is way too small. Finally, it gets in the way of the "refugium", which I should have mentioned has nowhere to put a refugium light.

So, in summary, despite having the fancy thing, my fish and corals are less happy because my nutrients are higher, my salinity is less stable, I have fewer spaces for bacteria to grow, and I have less space to produce pods. Though, admittedly, the new sump is prettier.



(also annoyed by the new skimmer, my old Tunze comline skimmer worked all the time while this new one stops working around any detritus, and is just in general far more finicky.)

 

[Dburr1014]

I suppose you can't take out the socks and baffle to make a bigger refuge?

I have a Rubbermaid tub. I want to upgrade, to a bigger tub. LOL.
It's nothing fancy, but serves it's purpose.

 

[PharmrJohn]

My old sump was two compartments. It was a 20 long with some acrylic and egg crate to separate. Left end was skimmer. Right side was return. The overflows just went through two socks with one PVC end shoved into each on the skimmer side. I changed the socks every other day. If they overflowed, it went straight into the sump anyway. Worked great.

 

[Slocke]

I suppose you can't take out the socks and baffle to make a bigger refuge?

I have a Rubbermaid tub. I want to upgrade, to a bigger tub. LOL.
It's nothing fancy, but serves its purpose.

It would require me removing a glass wall that is silicones on 3 sides and then I’d have two small Refugiums when I want one big one anyway.

 

[Tamberav]

I like baffles to keep the macro from getting sucked into the skimmer or return pump.

Basically my last sump was a petco sump with two glass baffles put in which makes a compartment for the skimmer, fuge, and return. No bubble traps as they were not needed.

I sometimes ran socks in the first compartment (they didn’t have their own space) but most do the time I didn’t because I got lazy about cleaning them so would leave them out and run them when stirring the sand bed for a few hours.

 

[Slocke]

I like baffles to keep the macro from getting sucked into the skimmer or return pump.

Basically my last sump was a petco sump with two glass baffles put in which makes a compartment for the skimmer, fuge, and return. No bubble traps as they were not needed.

I sometimes ran socks in the first compartment (they didn’t have their own space) but most do the time I didn’t because I got lazy about cleaning them so would leave them out and run them when stirring the sand bed for a few hours.

That’s why I miss my tunze skimmer which doesn’t fit in this sump. It worked perfectly even with a ton of debris around it. Worked even when the intake was stuffed with Cheato

 

[Tamberav]

That’s why I miss my tunze skimmer which doesn’t fit in this sump. It worked perfectly even with a ton of debris around it. Worked even when the intake was stuffed with Cheato

Ya my regal octo will stop working or get really loud if something clogs it.

Maybe next petco sale just replace that sump with your own? You could do 1 or 2 baffles just so the new skimmer doesn’t get clogged.

If you make the first baffle really high you could maximize fudge space that way and have the first compartment for fudge and the skimmer and return on the other side in the same compartment next to each other if they fit to gain as much fuge space as possible. Otherwise you could separate those with a second baffle that sets the skimmer level.

 

[vlangel]

This is the sump of my last tank. It is a simple and cheap 45-gallon tank. It had no compartments, no filter socks, no [insert third thing here when you think of a third thing]. And you know what? It kept my water clean, my nitrates at around 5ppm, easy to access, and my salinity stable with the ATO. Yes, it's a bit of an eyesore, and I would have preferred to have kept it in a cabinet, but my stand didn't have a cabinet. The concept is simple. The mangrove and caulerpa removed the nitrate and phosphate, the skimmer took care of the fats, and the sand and rock allowed for bacterial filtration and grew pods for my fish.

I recently upgraded to a fancy tankwith a fancy sump. It's got like five compartments. A place for the water to enter, a filter sock section, a skimmer section, a refugium section, and a return pump section. Yet, it is doing so much worse at keeping my nutrients down! Last I tested, my nitrates were 50!

My issues are as follows.

1. The first two compartments are just for the filter socks, and filter socks are a lot more hassle than helpful. They collect a small amount of detritus, get clogged, and then the water diverts over the baffle, bypassing the socks. This not only renders the socks useless once a little dirty but it also affects the water level of the rest of the sump which stops the ATO doing its job properly.
2. The lack of refugium space. So far in my reefing journey, the only thing that has consistently worked at keeping the microorganisms happy and the nutrients down is a refugium. Yet this gives far more space to the almost useless filter socks and even more space to the skimmer. I have space for one small rock (yes, I added another to the skimmer section and one to the return pump section) and one rock is not nearly enough! I used to grow enough macroalgae to sell it to my LFS every month. I have not sold him any since upgrading because I can't grow enough.
3. Finally, there is the ATO system for this. I use a 5-gallon bucket. The little plastic container with the float valve is useless. First, it is attached firmly in place and needs a wrench to remove, which makes it a PITA to fill. Second, it is way too small. Finally, it gets in the way of the "refugium", which I should have mentioned has nowhere to put a refugium light.

So, in summary, despite having the fancy thing, my fish and corals are less happy because my nutrients are higher, my salinity is less stable, I have fewer spaces for bacteria to grow, and I have less space to produce pods. Though, admittedly, the new sump is prettier.



(also annoyed by the new skimmer, my old Tunze comline skimmer worked all the time while this new one stops working around any detritus, and is just in general far more finicky.)

I feel your pain. You buy a new setup with all the hope and anticipation of righting the things that weren't quite right with the old setup only to learn that things are not all better with the new.
I also have a sump

like your old setup. It's a 30 gallon XH tank with no compartments; just plumbing from the drain, a return pump, rock, sand, excess macroalgae from my display and a cheap float ATO if I am going away for any duration. It's not very pretty but it is very functional. That's OK because it's in our basement that is also not very pretty but functional, LOL.
Is it possible for you to replace the fancy sump with a cheap Petco aquarium, (set it up like the old setup) and sell the fancy sump to recoup some of your costs?

 

[Slocke]

Ya my regal octo will stop working or get really loud if something clogs it.

Maybe next petco sale just replace that sump with your own? You could do 1 or 2 baffles just so the new skimmer doesn’t get clogged.

If you make the first baffle really high you could maximize fudge space that way and have the first compartment for fudge and the skimmer and return on the other side in the same compartment next to each other if they fit to gain as much fuge space as possible. Otherwise you could separate those with a second baffle that sets the skimmer level.

I’ve thought about it. For now I’m trying alternate methods. I just installed a phosphate reactor and have started vodka dosing. For pods I am thinking of copying @i cant think who grows them in jars.

 

[MoshJosh]

I like a 3 baffle system personally (though I have always used no baffle/single chamber sumps haha).

 

[MoshJosh]

And I agree with you, refugium is the ticket to low nutrients (too low in my cases!)

My old, nutrient destroying, sump:

I will say that those tiny compartmentalized sumps probably offer a fun Tetris like challenge. . . Seeing what all equipment you can fit were, kinda like building one of those super small case sized PCs. . .

 

[Mschmidt]

I have a similar gripe about mine. This has me thinking, I wonder how well my skimmers would work in the sock compartment. more room for sump rocks!

 

[KrisReef]

Compartments are like departments, each one needs a manager. All those baffles are operational restrictions to the big box wear house that can fit whatever you want to throw in it.
Once you start thinking that you can improve the on a functional ecosystem the first results will almost always be uncontrollable parameters sitting in tight baffling situations.
Good luck on your next reorganization and assembly of the new mission statement.

 

[EliMelly]

This is the sump of my last tank. It is a simple and cheap 45-gallon tank. It had no compartments, no filter socks, no [insert third thing here when you think of a third thing]. And you know what? It kept my water clean, my nitrates at around 5ppm, easy to access, and my salinity stable with the ATO. Yes, it's a bit of an eyesore, and I would have preferred to have kept it in a cabinet, but my stand didn't have a cabinet. The concept is simple. The mangrove and caulerpa removed the nitrate and phosphate, the skimmer took care of the fats, and the sand and rock allowed for bacterial filtration and grew pods for my fish.

I recently upgraded to a fancy tankwith a fancy sump. It's got like five compartments. A place for the water to enter, a filter sock section, a skimmer section, a refugium section, and a return pump section. Yet, it is doing so much worse at keeping my nutrients down! Last I tested, my nitrates were 50!

My issues are as follows.

1. The first two compartments are just for the filter socks, and filter socks are a lot more hassle than helpful. They collect a small amount of detritus, get clogged, and then the water diverts over the baffle, bypassing the socks. This not only renders the socks useless once a little dirty but it also affects the water level of the rest of the sump which stops the ATO doing its job properly.
2. The lack of refugium space. So far in my reefing journey, the only thing that has consistently worked at keeping the microorganisms happy and the nutrients down is a refugium. Yet this gives far more space to the almost useless filter socks and even more space to the skimmer. I have space for one small rock (yes, I added another to the skimmer section and one to the return pump section) and one rock is not nearly enough! I used to grow enough macroalgae to sell it to my LFS every month. I have not sold him any since upgrading because I can't grow enough.
3. Finally, there is the ATO system for this. I use a 5-gallon bucket. The little plastic container with the float valve is useless. First, it is attached firmly in place and needs a wrench to remove, which makes it a PITA to fill. Second, it is way too small. Finally, it gets in the way of the "refugium", which I should have mentioned has nowhere to put a refugium light.

So, in summary, despite having the fancy thing, my fish and corals are less happy because my nutrients are higher, my salinity is less stable, I have fewer spaces for bacteria to grow, and I have less space to produce pods. Though, admittedly, the new sump is prettier.



(also annoyed by the new skimmer, my old Tunze comline skimmer worked all the time while this new one stops working around any detritus, and is just in general far more finicky.)

Check out a reefmat they’re amazing

 

[cilyjr]

Sump designs are overcomplicated

Yes.

 

[Troylee]

Any time someone asks for recommendations on a sump I give the same answer! Wide open with a baffle to control the water level in the return section and that’s it! It sucks being married to a design or piece of equipment you think was the hot ticket and learn different! I’ve built hundreds and the plain jane ones are my favorites!

 

[JoJosReef]

Fancy sump in progress. Took out the socks and handed them right back to the vendor, said keep them. Put cups in to hold carbon. No plans to put floss or anything else. Let the detritus flow!

Skimmer chamber? Fin slap that! Trying to set this up as a half macro refugium, half cryptic refugium. Botry, codium, hopefully Galaxaura and red titan! May add a clam or oyster or other bivalve. That's all I'm planning. Keepin' it dirty!

 

[Slocke]

Check out a reefmat they’re amazing

If only there were space and honestly I think I’m over particulate filtration.

Fancy sump in progress. Took out the socks and handed them right back to the vendor, said keep them. Put cups in to hold carbon.

Now thats something! I wouldn’t want to have carbon in all the time but that is a great solution for when needed. Perhaps some rubble would be a good alternate…

 

[Slocke]

Any time someone asks for recommendations on a sump I give the same answer! Wide open with a baffle to control the water level in the return section and that’s it! It sucks being married to a design or piece of equipment you think was the hot ticket and learn different! I’ve built hundreds and the plain jane ones are my favorites!

I just put the return pump in a critter carrier. Same thing right?

 

[Cichlid Dad]

This is my sump design pic was when I first set it up. Basically a refugium with a skimmer.

This is now. I really feel it is the best for the way I Reef.