Opinion/rant: Sump designs are overcomplicated

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Neat and Clean Diagrammatic Form:

1727403148880.png


The ugly realized version:
IMG_1818.jpeg

The Evian bottle is a $5 ATO, over on the right just out of frame is a 500ml bottle connected to the tank via an air hose siphon with a knot in I use to drop dose, the funnel on the left with the pvc is for dropping food in so it sinks down to the return pump and gets circulated in the tank for the fish to chase. I forgot I also have a carbon reactor I use occasionally in the same chamber as the return pump. For various reasons I also run it with the water a little above the final baffle as a default, partly just because that’s where it needs to be for the basic ATO.
Love that design with the water flowing from underneath!
 
I would be at the local laundromat once a week then. Though, for reasons just like that... I wouldn't wash my clothes at a laundromat....
My wife has horses and that's exactly what we do when we wash their blankets after winter.
 
I am definitely in the camp that most sumps are overly complicated.

If one wants to run a skimmer, having a compartment for that where you can control water height is the only thing I'd want.

I gutted my current sump.
 
Neat and Clean Diagrammatic Form:

1727403148880.png


The ugly realized version:
IMG_1818.jpeg

The Evian bottle is a $5 ATO, over on the right just out of frame is a 500ml bottle connected to the tank via an air hose siphon with a knot in I use to drop dose, the funnel on the left with the pvc is for dropping food in so it sinks down to the return pump and gets circulated in the tank for the fish to chase. I forgot I also have a carbon reactor I use occasionally in the same chamber as the return pump. For various reasons I also run it with the water a little above the final baffle as a default, partly just because that’s where it needs to be for the basic ATO.
Perfectly executed my friend
 
In my gutted sump I had to buy a stand for the skimmer to get it in the proper height
I had to do the same thing, I have the same skimmer, how is the skimming on your unit? I was surprised at how it did for a budget skimmer.
 
The first sump I made was a 40 long that I built for a 125g freshwater cichlid aquarium. I siliconed in a number of baffles, which I later came to regret in a number of different ways. First mistake was not sanding the edges the glass I cut for the baffles. I would frequently end up with nicks on the back of my fingers anytime I needed to reach between the baffles for any reason. I also made the first baffle way too tall, so if the filter socks ever clogged up, the water level was right at the top trim for the sump. That was a real pain to deal with water splashing around when the overflow wasn't tuned right. I also added a baffle at the far end to create an isolation area, which at the time I thought would be useful to have for moving any fish into that needed to be isolated, or to be my ATO reservoir. It just turned into a detritus trap.

Long story short, the biggest lesson I learned from all of that was how easy it can be to over-engineer yourself into a corner that can be extremely difficult to get yourself out of without a lot of work and needing to remove the entire sump from a live system to make any real changes to it.

The new sump I'm working on only has a single coarse foam divider that is easily removable. I've been thinking of replacing it with an actual acrylic baffle though to be able to keep the level in my refugium section a lot higher. Would love to find some way of being able to "seal" an acrylic panel in just by friction so that I could (re)move it later on without much effort.
 
How is the skimmer working for you?
For being undersized for the system it sure cranks. I've been getting crazy foam without even trying and minimal break-in time. IOAOI really got their hands on some decent pumps for these.
Also, I'm not sure but there is another air input on the top; I think it could be used for ozone but I'd want to confirm before trying that.
 
This is the sump of my last tank. It is a simple and cheap 45-gallon tank. It had no compartments, no filter socks, no [insert third thing here when you think of a third thing]. And you know what? It kept my water clean, my nitrates at around 5ppm, easy to access, and my salinity stable with the ATO. Yes, it's a bit of an eyesore, and I would have preferred to have kept it in a cabinet, but my stand didn't have a cabinet. The concept is simple. The mangrove and caulerpa removed the nitrate and phosphate, the skimmer took care of the fats, and the sand and rock allowed for bacterial filtration and grew pods for my fish.
IMG_0666.jpeg

IMG_0664.jpeg


I recently upgraded to a fancy tankwith a fancy sump. It's got like five compartments. A place for the water to enter, a filter sock section, a skimmer section, a refugium section, and a return pump section. Yet, it is doing so much worse at keeping my nutrients down! Last I tested, my nitrates were 50!
IMG_1635.jpeg

Screenshot 2024-08-27 at 1.36.47 PM.png


My issues are as follows.
  1. The first two compartments are just for the filter socks, and filter socks are a lot more hassle than helpful. They collect a small amount of detritus, get clogged, and then the water diverts over the baffle, bypassing the socks. This not only renders the socks useless once a little dirty but it also affects the water level of the rest of the sump which stops the ATO doing its job properly.
  2. The lack of refugium space. So far in my reefing journey, the only thing that has consistently worked at keeping the microorganisms happy and the nutrients down is a refugium. Yet this gives far more space to the almost useless filter socks and even more space to the skimmer. I have space for one small rock (yes, I added another to the skimmer section and one to the return pump section) and one rock is not nearly enough! I used to grow enough macroalgae to sell it to my LFS every month. I have not sold him any since upgrading because I can't grow enough.
  3. Finally, there is the ATO system for this. I use a 5-gallon bucket. The little plastic container with the float valve is useless. First, it is attached firmly in place and needs a wrench to remove, which makes it a PITA to fill. Second, it is way too small. Finally, it gets in the way of the "refugium", which I should have mentioned has nowhere to put a refugium light.

So, in summary, despite having the fancy thing, my fish and corals are less happy because my nutrients are higher, my salinity is less stable, I have fewer spaces for bacteria to grow, and I have less space to produce pods. Though, admittedly, the new sump is prettier.



(also annoyed by the new skimmer, my old Tunze comline skimmer worked all the time while this new one stops working around any detritus, and is just in general far more finicky.)
I 100% agree. Keep it simple and less is more. There are sooomany fancy gadgets and I have and enjoy plenty of them but reality is, if you have good practices and simple setups you can do more with less.
 
Haven’t ran a traditional sump in many years, if money was no object, I’d definitely buy a fancy sump system. As a man of many hobbies, there’s always going to be an elitist mentality to some extent… It’s no different than my other hobby, fly fishing. I catch the same fish on my thrifted south bend bait rod as I do on my fenwick.

There’s more than one way to filet a fish, there’s more than one way to run a reef tank… My current sump would probably garner some laughs and critiques, but it’s working for me and I didn’t have to spend a fortune :)
 
My first sump: A 10g tank with a plastic container to get the water level for the HOB skimmer at the correct level.
IMG_1650.png


Second sump: A DIY 40B
IMG_1166.jpeg


Third sump:
IMG_1533.jpeg

IMG_0837.jpeg


Current sump: A Trigger Systems Ruby.

A sump can be as simple or as complicated as you want.
 
This is the sump of my last tank. It is a simple and cheap 45-gallon tank. It had no compartments, no filter socks, no [insert third thing here when you think of a third thing]. And you know what? It kept my water clean, my nitrates at around 5ppm, easy to access, and my salinity stable with the ATO. Yes, it's a bit of an eyesore, and I would have preferred to have kept it in a cabinet, but my stand didn't have a cabinet. The concept is simple. The mangrove and caulerpa removed the nitrate and phosphate, the skimmer took care of the fats, and the sand and rock allowed for bacterial filtration and grew pods for my fish.
IMG_0666.jpeg

IMG_0664.jpeg


I recently upgraded to a fancy tankwith a fancy sump. It's got like five compartments. A place for the water to enter, a filter sock section, a skimmer section, a refugium section, and a return pump section. Yet, it is doing so much worse at keeping my nutrients down! Last I tested, my nitrates were 50!
IMG_1635.jpeg

Screenshot 2024-08-27 at 1.36.47 PM.png


My issues are as follows.
  1. The first two compartments are just for the filter socks, and filter socks are a lot more hassle than helpful. They collect a small amount of detritus, get clogged, and then the water diverts over the baffle, bypassing the socks. This not only renders the socks useless once a little dirty but it also affects the water level of the rest of the sump which stops the ATO doing its job properly.
  2. The lack of refugium space. So far in my reefing journey, the only thing that has consistently worked at keeping the microorganisms happy and the nutrients down is a refugium. Yet this gives far more space to the almost useless filter socks and even more space to the skimmer. I have space for one small rock (yes, I added another to the skimmer section and one to the return pump section) and one rock is not nearly enough! I used to grow enough macroalgae to sell it to my LFS every month. I have not sold him any since upgrading because I can't grow enough.
  3. Finally, there is the ATO system for this. I use a 5-gallon bucket. The little plastic container with the float valve is useless. First, it is attached firmly in place and needs a wrench to remove, which makes it a PITA to fill. Second, it is way too small. Finally, it gets in the way of the "refugium", which I should have mentioned has nowhere to put a refugium light.

So, in summary, despite having the fancy thing, my fish and corals are less happy because my nutrients are higher, my salinity is less stable, I have fewer spaces for bacteria to grow, and I have less space to produce pods. Though, admittedly, the new sump is prettier.



(also annoyed by the new skimmer, my old Tunze comline skimmer worked all the time while this new one stops working around any detritus, and is just in general far more finicky.)
How many fish did you have in the tank when you had the old sump?
 
My concept of a sump in the 80s was to split a tank in half, live rock on one side followed by sea weed. This was before I heard of skimmers. Got the idea from an LFS that had large tubs underneath filled with live rock and my swimming amongst sea weed which I assumed like any plant would solve nitrates.

Fast forward to 2015 and got the bug to finally build my display. That sump idea turned into replacing live rock with gravel and next to it chaeto. Don't recall chaeto in the 80s or 90s. Seemed like an easier item to use yet still based on my research and conversions with LFS wasn't as popular as today therefore just as hesitant to go that path as I was in the 80s when I didn't see any use it and best I recall wasn't until the 90s when I learned of caulerpa.

Now one option is to introduce display water via reverse flow through an undergravel style filter topped with chaeto or something else such as pom pom. Gravel solves decomposing detritus converted to plant food then running return through sediment filters then UVC injected with ozone infrequently then finally the display. Most complicated part will be the plumbing plus canisters to house the sediment filters. Won't be pretty. Won't be on Instagram. Won't be marketed. No dollars. Plus to make it even simpler, designing an AIO with oversized baffles therefore underneath will just be plumbing, canisters and UVC plus injection method (thinking venturi) and two very large pumps in unison should one fail. I'm also wondering how to incorporate a cryptic zone and perhaps above the gravel and beneath the macroalgae as that doesn't need to be lit.

How do I make this all work and have enough flow to reduce number of wave makers need as I'd rather not spend effort cleaning them :thinking-face:
 
A Sump I built for a 75Gallon Cichlid tank. My Pinnacle in the hobby:
3ea5342e60bb49e79add2d4b457d3f41.jpg image0.jpeg 01a5d165923f46d291b5fce535597c31.jpg
Unwieldly manifold & DIY controller from before I learnt about all you sickos and that there were commercially available & advanced DIY controllers...
5f6a9512a0d2437b94e8ed40ea17d7f2.jpg
 

WHICH PART OF YOUR SETUP IS HARDEST TO REACH OR REMOVE FOR ROUTINE MAINTENANCE?

  • Glass behind or beside the tank

    Votes: 10 24.4%
  • Powerheads or wavemakers

    Votes: 3 7.3%
  • Sump or rear filtration chambers

    Votes: 5 12.2%
  • Skimmer or other filtration equipment

    Votes: 4 9.8%
  • Overflow or plumbing

    Votes: 8 19.5%
  • Lights or lids

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mine is pretty easy to access!

    Votes: 10 24.4%
  • Other—tell us what I missed

    Votes: 1 2.4%
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