Options for Combating a Dino Outbreak

[Dan_P]

Scientific or not, I would like to know how many have really succeeded in defeating dinoflagellates with competitive methods. I am not questioning it.
This is similar to human medicine where it is almost never enough to just introduce a good environment in the first stage, though it works as a prophylactic agent.

Could we have a thread here or elsewhere where we have some sort of results summarised regarding how different methods and their success rates perform? It is very hard to see that in forums where the threads are long and hard to get an overview

Agree^^^. Though I am questioning the success of the methods.

 

[anarvaez]

I would start dosing microbacter clean or microbacter 7 along with vaccuming the Dino’s up. The bacteria will prevent the Dino’s from growing out again

 

[mcarroll]

I am not sure what your point is.

My point is almost always "more reading" or something along those lines.

Diatoms have been found to generate substances that seem to squelch dino (and possibly other phyto) blooms in the wild.

https://reefsuccess.com/2017/06/15/...c-benthic-dinoflagellate-ostreopsis-cf-ovata/

Diatoms have been shown to produce and release a wide range of secondary metabolites that mediate interactions between individuals of different species. Among these compounds, different types of fatty acid derived long-chained polyunsaturated aldehydes (PUAs) have been related to multiple functions such as intra- or interspecific signals and adverse effect on the reproduction of marine organisms.

The quote is just the lead-in to the abstract. The full article is linked in the post as usual.

Of course there's more....some of it may be familiar already, I don't know:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...tling-altogether.293318/page-125#post-4401491
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...tling-altogether.293318/page-129#post-4408748
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/amphidinium-dinoflagellate-treatment-methods.365850/

 

[Pseudodiego]

This week, I got a new dino outbreak in my new 250-gallon tank after dosing chemiclean for Cyano in the sand. Honestly, I’m not even scared of them anymore, and I'm happy about them replacing the ******* cyano. I’ve battled pretty much every common type of dino in my tanks: Prorocentrum, Amphidinium (small cell and large cell), and Ostreopsis.

Keep phosphates above 0.1 ppm, nitrates above 10 ppm, and dose silicates. And I mean A LOT of silicates, and they'll go away shortly.

In my previous 70-gallon tank, I think the recommended dose was something like 1 ml per week. I was dosing 10 ml daily for close to a month. Now, with the 250-gallon, I’m dosing around 30 mL daily. The only things I’ve noticed from dosing that much silicate are the dinos receding and a lot more sponges growing. Nothing else in the tank seems to be affected.

 

[Dan_P]

My point is almost always "more reading" or something along those lines.

Diatoms have been found to generate substances that seem to squelch dino (and possibly other phyto) blooms in the wild.

https://reefsuccess.com/2017/06/15/...c-benthic-dinoflagellate-ostreopsis-cf-ovata/

The quote is just the lead-in to the abstract. The full article is linked in the post as usual.

Interesting possibility, even tantalizing, but speculative, and circumstantial. How much of this substance is actually produced by which diatoms and is it produced in aquaria?

Finding information in scientific studies and then using it to support an idea is a popular approach used to sell bogus health care cures.

 

[mcarroll]

Interesting possibility, even tantalizing, but speculative, and circumstantial. How much of this substance is actually produced by which diatoms and is it produced in aquaria?

Finding information in scientific studies and then using it to support an idea is a popular approach used to sell bogus health care cures.

Now I'm not sure I see your point.

Is your point to stop reading and stop problem solving in the hobby? That would be hilarious.

Maybe your point is that the major science journals are merely sources of fraud? That would also be hilarious.

I love humor!

Getting to the discussion...

Folks with dinoflagellate blooms that don't respond to ordinary control measures are experimenting more and more with dosing silicates.

Their hope is to produce a diatom bloom that will (maybe among other things) generate some substance(s) that have a desirable effect on their dinoflagellate bloom.

That very thing has been noted to happen in the wild and in laboratory experiments.

The question is will those findings and experiments translate to the home reef tank?

Not everything does – not by a stretch – so it's a necessary question.

Nobody is expected to have a ready answer to that question, BTW.....I don't think there is an answer yet. Hence all the experimentation going on.

I wonder if anyone will refine the experiment to get better results?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I would start dosing microbacter clean or microbacter 7 along with vaccuming the Dino’s up. The bacteria will prevent the Dino’s from growing out again

I understand that is the rationale. Whether it actually works that way, or works at all, is a different question.

 

[JonasRoman]

Regarding dosing silicate to outcompete dinoflagellates, all that theory relies on the premise that silicate limits diatom growth. I am not so sure that is true. I have had many different silicon levels and have never seen a connection between that and diatom growth. I am not sure you will get a significant increase in diatoms just because you dose silicon, as phosphorus can be limiting if dinoflagellates have consumed it; in such a case, dosing silicon should not have much effect. Maybe I am wrong, it is just a thought. Also, in cases where dinoflagellates disappeared after dosing silicon, was it a clear, fast, and prompt response or just a slow decline? The latter is not evidence enough, as minor dinoflagellate outbreaks can subside on their own.

In the method I believe in, UV plus a dark period provides a fast and prompt response, making it impossible to blame the effect on a natural process. As dinoflagellates are unpredictable, I think we need a clear, undoubted response to conclude that a method works.

I would still like to see a summary of all methods, their responses, and their success rates. It is hard to get an overview of the subject because of the huge threads. I realise such a summary is impossible to get unless someone start a huge investigation and ask users for honest reports.
Absolutely also uvc plus dark may fail. I can only response for my own experience where it has been surprisingly successfully. But yes, it was some trial to get there with proper uv etc.
No one would be more happy than me if there is a more easy and cheaper method with high success rate. For me, I have failed with so many competitive methods so I dont have faith to try again.

Will try roughly search among all these threads if we can get a hint of successrate for different methods.

Jonas

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Regarding dosing silicate to outcompete dinoflagellates, all that theory relies on the premise that silicate limits diatom growth. I am not so sure that is true.

It was definitely true in my old tank. It may or may not be true in others.

https://reefs.com/magazine/silica-in-reef-aquariums/


Figure 3. A view of the inside of the front glass of my reef tank 5 days after scraping the glass.

Figure 6. A view of the inside of the front glass of my reef tank 5 days after scraping the glass and adding the silica supplement.

Figure 7. An organism (at arrow point) isolated from the glass surface after silica addition, tentatively identified as the diatom _Cylindrotheca closterium (Nitzschia closterium). It is the second most abundant in the collected material.

 

[JonasRoman]

It was definitely true in my old tank. It may or may not be true in others.

https://reefs.com/magazine/silica-in-reef-aquariums/


Figure 3. A view of the inside of the front glass of my reef tank 5 days after scraping the glass.

Figure 6. A view of the inside of the front glass of my reef tank 5 days after scraping the glass and adding the silica supplement.

Figure 7. An organism (at arrow point) isolated from the glass surface after silica addition, tentatively identified as the diatom _Cylindrotheca closterium (Nitzschia closterium). It is the second most abundant in the collected material.

Beautiful illustrated:-) I havent done that serious, just observation in my tank.
Its for sure different in different situations, I mean Si exists quite abundant in a normal NSW, so I wonder if this really are limiting just because these algue contains some Si?. I think I never have seen an ICP with really low Si.