Ostreopsis Dinoflagellates and TM All-for-Reef

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Hey all! I am currently battling Ostreopsis dinos that seem resistant to UV. Ive beat them in the past in this same tank with this same UV but this time around the difference is that I am dosing all for reef. I know in the wild that dinos feed off of free iron and that AFR has iron in it and will even precipitate iron in the bottle. Is it possible the trace iron in AFR is feeding some species of dinos? I know AFR also has a mild carbon dosing effect which could also play a part in this as well. I am currently dosing 11.6ml a day to maintain a dkh of 7.5. @Lou Ekus do you guys at TM have any insight on the interaction between dinos and AFR? Let me know you thoughts and experiences.
156440716_1403642843361468_5923525291544179395_n.jpg
 

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A couple of thoughts. Yes, I have had ostreopsis and when I switched to a high Fe containing salt they bloomed badly. I would do what I could to avoid adding any iron to the tank.

Check your UV sleeve. Sometimes (especially in high dKh tanks) there will be calcium deposits on the sleeve that make the UV non functional
UV sleeve.jpg


Is your UV plumbed from the sump or from/to the display? Is it borderline sized (3 watts or less per gallon display volume)
 
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A couple of thoughts. Yes, I have had ostreopsis and when I switched to a high Fe containing salt they bloomed badly. I would do what I could to avoid adding any iron to the tank.

Check your UV sleeve. Sometimes (especially in high dKh tanks) there will be calcium deposits on the sleeve that make the UV non functional
UV sleeve.jpg


Is your UV plumbed from the sump or from/to the display? Is it borderline sized (3 watts or less per gallon display volume)
It is a all in one so the UV dropped into the overflow, it is the IM brand and is 9watts for a 17gal volume. I just replaced the bulb and sleeve a month ago but I will double check it. I think if after another month or so with elevated nutrients, bacteria dosing and this uv I will try a bigger one directly in the display and if that doesn't do it then I will try switching to two part.
 

Lou Ekus

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Hey all! I am currently battling Ostreopsis dinos that seem resistant to UV. Ive beat them in the past in this same tank with this same UV but this time around the difference is that I am dosing all for reef. I know in the wild that dinos feed off of free iron and that AFR has iron in it and will even precipitate iron in the bottle. Is it possible the trace iron in AFR is feeding some species of dinos? I know AFR also has a mild carbon dosing effect which could also play a part in this as well. I am currently dosing 11.6ml a day to maintain a dkh of 7.5. @Lou Ekus do you guys at TM have any insight on the interaction between dinos and AFR? Let me know you thoughts and experiences.
156440716_1403642843361468_5923525291544179395_n.jpg
We haven't seen this issue with dinos. I guess my first question is whether you are totally sure they are dino. Have you looked under a scope?

I think in theory, you are not incorrect. In theory, adding any concentration of iron could make a difference. But as I said, we have not seen this play out in practice. If it were to be the case, that the AFR was contributing to this, and you had good luck with UV before, I wouldn't see any reason that this time the dinos would be "UV resistant" in any way. Although, that all being said, I always feel like the UV is very effective with anything IN the water column. But does not effect anything creatures that are "settled" on substrate or rock work. For that reason, it is not my preferred method of dealing with this.

One last question for you, you said in your second post "I think if after another month or so with elevated nutrients, bacteria dosing and this uv..." What is this "elevated nutrients" you are talking about? To me, this could have more of an influence on this than the AFR.
 

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It is a all in one so the UV dropped into the overflow, it is the IM brand and is 9watts for a 17gal volume. I just replaced the bulb and sleeve a month ago but I will double check it. I think if after another month or so with elevated nutrients, bacteria dosing and this uv I will try a bigger one directly in the display and if that doesn't do it then I will try switching to two part.

Yeah, I don't know for sure how effective those are. I used one in my 10 gallon IM Fusion for coolia and it worked well but ostreopsis seems a little more difficult to eradicate than coolia to me.

Have you tried blowing off the rock/sand late afternoon and right before lights out to urge the ostreopsis in to the water column? If you are using a programable return pump you could also decrease flow through the UV by turning the return pump way down low. That should make your UV much more effective!
 
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We haven't seen this issue with dinos. I guess my first question is whether you are totally sure they are dino. Have you looked under a scope?

I think in theory, you are not incorrect. In theory, adding any concentration of iron could make a difference. But as I said, we have not seen this play out in practice. If it were to be the case, that the AFR was contributing to this, and you had good luck with UV before, I wouldn't see any reason that this time the dinos would be "UV resistant" in any way. Although, that all being said, I always feel like the UV is very effective with anything IN the water column. But does not effect anything creatures that are "settled" on substrate or rock work. For that reason, it is not my preferred method of dealing with this.

One last question for you, you said in your second post "I think if after another month or so with elevated nutrients, bacteria dosing and this uv..." What is this "elevated nutrients" you are talking about? To me, this could have more of an influence on this than the AFR.
Thanks for the quick reply. I should have specified increased No3(10ppm) and Po4(.1ppm) to encourage micro algae to out compete the dinos for space. Normally I aim for 5ppm No3 and .03 Po4. I have confirmed under a scope that I am dealing with ostreopsis dinoflagellates. the UV worked before alongside increased nitrate and phosphate levels but I was not dosing at the time where as this time around I am and that sparked the thought. It is possible that the dinos ive encountered in the past were Coolia as I did not have a proper ID and just slapped on a UV and they were gone. The consensus across multiple platforms is that an adequate UV should be able to deal with Ostreopsis regardless of trace mineral content but I figured id ask the pros. Love AFR btw, the coral is doing amazing using it.
ostreo.jpg
 
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Yeah, I don't know for sure how effective those are. I used one in my 10 gallon IM Fusion for coolia and it worked well but ostreopsis seems a little more difficult to eradicate than coolia to me.

Have you tried blowing off the rock/sand late afternoon and right before lights out to urge the ostreopsis in to the water column? If you are using a programable return pump you could also decrease flow through the UV by turning the return pump way down low. That should make your UV much more effective!
Yes all great suggestions! I have had my pump turned all the way down and I blow them off at lights out daily. It is possible that the last time I had dinos that they were Coolia as I never ID'd tham and just put the uv on and they were out of there. Im thinking a more legit UV in the display is the answer but it is also the most expensive answer for a piece of gear I likely wont be able to use beyond this purpose for this small of a tank.
 

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Yes all great suggestions! I have had my pump turned all the way down and I blow them off at lights out daily. It is possible that the last time I had dinos that they were Coolia as I never ID'd tham and just put the uv on and they were out of there. Im thinking a more legit UV in the display is the answer but it is also the most expensive answer for a piece of gear I likely wont be able to use beyond this purpose for this small of a tank.

I would for sure try reducing flow to increase contact time before spending money on a new UV. You may need to put a powerhead in the tank to replace the lost flow for a while?
 

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Thanks for the quick reply. I should have specified increased No3(10ppm) and Po4(.1ppm) to encourage micro algae to out compete the dinos for space. Normally I aim for 5ppm No3 and .03 Po4. I have confirmed under a scope that I am dealing with ostreopsis dinoflagellates. the UV worked before alongside increased nitrate and phosphate levels but I was not dosing at the time where as this time around I am and that sparked the thought. It is possible that the dinos ive encountered in the past were Coolia as I did not have a proper ID and just slapped on a UV and they were gone. The consensus across multiple platforms is that an adequate UV should be able to deal with Ostreopsis regardless of trace mineral content but I figured id ask the pros. Love AFR btw, the coral is doing amazing using it.
ostreo.jpg

Yes, definitely ostreopsis.
 

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I typically don’t like doing lights out to deal with issues but with ostreopsis I like to do at least a one day black out to keep them in the water column to allow the UV to filter more of them before they go back onto the rocks and substrate when the lights kick on. I’ve dealt with ostreopsis in a few different tanks and what method worked in one tank, didn’t in the other. So making sure the UV is properly functioning like saltyhog mentioned, while also making sure it’s properly rated with the right amount of flow - too little or too much renders it useless.

FWIW, I used AFR in a 40 gallon and beat dinos using the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink method.
 
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I typically don’t like doing lights out to deal with issues but with ostreopsis I like to do at least a one day black out to keep them in the water column to allow the UV to filter more of them before they go back onto the rocks and substrate when the lights kick on. I’ve dealt with ostreopsis in a few different tanks and what method worked in one tank, didn’t in the other. So making sure the UV is properly functioning like saltyhog mentioned, while also making sure it’s properly rated with the right amount of flow - too little or too much renders it useless.

FWIW, I used AFR in a 40 gallon and beat dinos using the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink method.
That is encouraging that AFR wasn't a detriment to the process for you. I may try a small blackout if things begin to become bleak but for now the tank really hasn't missed a beat, just a little ugly and the looming possibility of loosing some cuc which is stressful.
 

Lou Ekus

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Thanks for the quick reply. I should have specified increased No3(10ppm) and Po4(.1ppm) to encourage micro algae to out compete the dinos for space. Normally I aim for 5ppm No3 and .03 Po4. I have confirmed under a scope that I am dealing with ostreopsis dinoflagellates. the UV worked before alongside increased nitrate and phosphate levels but I was not dosing at the time where as this time around I am and that sparked the thought. It is possible that the dinos ive encountered in the past were Coolia as I did not have a proper ID and just slapped on a UV and they were gone. The consensus across multiple platforms is that an adequate UV should be able to deal with Ostreopsis regardless of trace mineral content but I figured id ask the pros. Love AFR btw, the coral is doing amazing using it.
ostreo.jpg
I would think this is not directly related to the AFR addition. So I wouldn't stress about that. Although, you can never say for sure! :) I would agree with both the one day black out and the lowered flow rate in the UV. The UV flow rate can mean the difference between effective and not so much very easily! I would give it a try.
 

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I have been on the AFR tip for a little over a year and dose 35 ml a day and have not had that issue and my nutrients are super low all the time. Hope you get it figured out!
PS Lou where the he!! Are the AFR shipments. I am halfway into my last 1000ml bottle and can’t find any. Getting nervous sir!! I could not even fathom going back to 2 part I would not even know what to dose
 

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Lou Ekus

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I have been on the AFR tip for a little over a year and dose 35 ml a day and have not had that issue and my nutrients are super low all the time. Hope you get it figured out!
PS Lou where the he!! Are the AFR shipments. I am halfway into my last 1000ml bottle and can’t find any. Getting nervous sir!! I could not even fathom going back to 2 part I would not even know what to dose
I hear you Wayne, just keep in touch with your retailer. I'm sure they will be back in stock soon. AFR is constantly coming over. It just sells out really quickly. Chin up, it will be back soon, I'm sure!
 

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I hear you Wayne, just keep in touch with your retailer. I'm sure they will be back in stock soon. AFR is constantly coming over. It just sells out really quickly. Chin up, it will be back soon, I'm sure!
The shortage exposed my weakness to the lack of AFR! I dont wanna switch it works too well. Crack that whip Lou!! Thanks for the reply though
 
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The shortage exposed my weakness to the lack of AFR! I dont wanna switch it works too well. Crack that whip Lou!! Thanks for the reply though
If you get a chance to buy, get the DIY powder. You mix with RODI and it makes 6 bottles x 1L. Will last quite a long time.
 

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Thanks for the quick reply. I should have specified increased No3(10ppm) and Po4(.1ppm) to encourage micro algae to out compete the dinos for space. Normally I aim for 5ppm No3 and .03 Po4. I have confirmed under a scope that I am dealing with ostreopsis dinoflagellates. the UV worked before alongside increased nitrate and phosphate levels but I was not dosing at the time where as this time around I am and that sparked the thought. It is possible that the dinos ive encountered in the past were Coolia as I did not have a proper ID and just slapped on a UV and they were gone. The consensus across multiple platforms is that an adequate UV should be able to deal with Ostreopsis regardless of trace mineral content but I figured id ask the pros. Love AFR btw, the coral is doing amazing using it.
ostreo.jpg
In relation to your question about iron.....I don't have a final, definite answer, however I think iron will not affect UV-resistance, at least not in a positive way, rather maybe even in a negative way. In fact, I think iron can produce radicals due to the photo-Fenton reaction under UV. This could be similar to H2O2 addition which is sometimes used against cyanos. I'm not 100% sure about this. I'm just mentioning it. But I think the iron in AFR should not be a contributing factor anyway.
 

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I typically don’t like doing lights out to deal with issues but with ostreopsis I like to do at least a one day black out to keep them in the water column to allow the UV to filter more of them before they go back onto the rocks and substrate when the lights kick on. I’ve dealt with ostreopsis in a few different tanks and what method worked in one tank, didn’t in the other. So making sure the UV is properly functioning like saltyhog mentioned, while also making sure it’s properly rated with the right amount of flow - too little or too much renders it useless.

FWIW, I used AFR in a 40 gallon and beat dinos using the everything-but-the-kitchen-sink method.
What is this method (everything-but-the-kitchen-sink method) about?
 
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What is this method (everything-but-the-kitchen-sink method) about?
Its typically a combination of some or all known treatments for dinos including but not limited to, UV, peroxide dosing, black outs, raising nutrients, manual removal, silicate dosing, phyto and pod dosing, bacterial supplements, increased temp, etc
 

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Its typically a combination of some or all known treatments for dinos including but not limited to, UV, peroxide dosing, black outs, raising nutrients, manual removal, silicate dosing, phyto and pod dosing, bacterial supplements, increased temp, etc
Cant help but think its peroxide dosing that gets us into this mess...


Must.. resist... temptations...
 
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