Pairing Scribbled Angelfish

[mjreefs]

Did you give him a prazi bath as suggested? Large water change? I suspect these two may be at play here.

No. Will do a water change later, but it seems that he really likes clam. He just can’t finish a whole serving of clam, so I decided to chop it up and offer little by little to it, he really likes it. He eats clam even without the shell. I guess it just doesn’t have an interest yet on other types of food. Now just to figure how to entice him to eat other prepared food.

 

[Bruce17]

Sorry, I live outside the US. The vid is from our LFS

I’m outside of the States as well. I’m up in Canada and they don’t ship to Canada unfortunately

 

[mjreefs]

Here’s a video of the two after a week in my QT. Should I pull the trigger and remove the barrier between them?

 

[pcon]

I have used a technique where I will remove the barrier for some time, under my direct observation and re introduce the barrier if there is trouble. Replace the barrier when you are no longer able to directly observe, until you are comfortable with their interactions when your watching. They even talk about using incrementally longer periods without a barrier in the Male to Female change paper. Edit to add the link
I don't see the positive pairing signs I look for in that small clip, but I also don't see any major red flags. That being said its only a 5s clip you will have a better gut feel about it. I would recommend adding like 10x the amount of cover than is pictured, idk if you took some out for the vid. Often I would have issues if there wasn't enough cover for the angels to feel like they have their own spaces. sometimes this was accomplished with a large 125 with only a few seperated structures, or in smaller QT tanks I had better luck packing them with pvc and fake plants. A good tip I heard is the fish should be spending more time thinking about where they are going, not the other fish that's in their open area.

 

[mjreefs]

I have used a technique where I will remove the barrier for some time, under my direct observation and re introduce the barrier if there is trouble. Replace the barrier when you are no longer able to directly observe, until you are comfortable with their interactions when your watching. They even talk about using incrementally longer periods without a barrier in the Male to Female change paper. Edit to add the link
I don't see the positive pairing signs I look for in that small clip, but I also don't see any major red flags. That being said its only a 5s clip you will have a better gut feel about it. I would recommend adding like 10x the amount of cover than is pictured, idk if you took some out for the vid. Often I would have issues if there wasn't enough cover for the angels to feel like they have their own spaces. sometimes this was accomplished with a large 125 with only a few seperated structures, or in smaller QT tanks I had better luck packing them with pvc and fake plants. A good tip I heard is the fish should be spending more time thinking about where they are going, not the other fish that's in their open area.

I only separated them using an eggcrate, is that too little?

When you say directly observe, does that mean where I stand in front of the tank all the time? Or does it mean like I can check on them on a stable interval like every 10 mins? Because there are days where I am literally free the whole day and I can do the simply stand in front of the tank and watch thing.

 

[pcon]

I only separated them using an eggcrate, is that too little?

when you are keeping them separated from each other like now its good to have egg crate or something they can easily see each other. But when they are not separated it's good to have a lot of cover, fake plants, Pvc fittings, terracotta pots, rock, ect. Give them things to break up the sight line, explore, and feel safe hiding.

When you say directly observe, does that mean where I stand in front of the tank all the time? Or does it mean like I can check on them on a stable interval like every 10 mins? Because there are days where I am literally free the whole day and I can do the simply stand in front of the tank and watch thing.

More or less you want to watch closely enough that they can't kill each other while your back is turned. The first hour might literally be eyes on tank the whole time, but by the end of a few hours a day you might only check on them every 10-20 min. Lot of gut feel to it. I generally only revert to this method when pairing is rocky so I am pretty vigilant by the time it gets to this point.

 

[mjreefs]

when you are keeping them separated from each other like now its good to have egg crate or something they can easily see each other. But when they are not separated it's good to have a lot of cover, fake plants, Pvc fittings, terracotta pots, rock, ect. Give them things to break up the sight line, explore, and feel safe hiding.



More or less you want to watch closely enough that they can't kill each other while your back is turned. The first hour might literally be eyes on tank the whole time, but by the end of a few hours a day you might only check on them every 10-20 min. Lot of gut feel to it. I generally only revert to this method when pairing is rocky so I am pretty vigilant by the time it gets to this point.

Alright I'll keep this in mind, I'll devote a whole day for the release of the barrier. Will keep everyone posted. Thank you very much!

 

[mjreefs]

when you are keeping them separated from each other like now its good to have egg crate or something they can easily see each other. But when they are not separated it's good to have a lot of cover, fake plants, Pvc fittings, terracotta pots, rock, ect. Give them things to break up the sight line, explore, and feel safe hiding.



More or less you want to watch closely enough that they can't kill each other while your back is turned. The first hour might literally be eyes on tank the whole time, but by the end of a few hours a day you might only check on them every 10-20 min. Lot of gut feel to it. I generally only revert to this method when pairing is rocky so I am pretty vigilant by the time it gets to this point.

Oh yes, forgot to ask, should I reintroduce the barrier during the night because you'll never know what might happen.

 

[pcon]

Oh yes, forgot to ask, should I reintroduce the barrier during the night because you'll never know what might happen.

It’s a gut feel thing. I prefer to pair by simultaneous introduction to a new environment. So usually if I have a barrier installed it means I had at least one sketchy incident between the two in their first interaction. But if they are happy as clams together their first day there might be no need to replace the barrier, all depends on their interactions and your feeling about it.

 

[mjreefs]

Just an update something weird happened

All of a sudden the larger scribbled won’t eat pellets. So I dropped a few chopped up clams and he ate like a champ. What seems to be the problem? @4FordFamily

 

[pcon]

Why eat my veggies when I can get candy later? lol my venusta does the same, will eat pellets and flake, if i'm not around, from the auto feeder, but if (s)he sees me then (s)he will look and wait, as if to say where is the good stuff.

Alternatively appetite suppression can be a sign of illness such as flukes.

 

[mjreefs]

Why eat my veggies when I can get candy later? lol my venusta does the same, will eat pellets and flake, if i'm not around, from the auto feeder, but if (s)he sees me then (s)he will look and wait, as if to say where is the good stuff.

Alternatively appetite suppression can be a sign of illness such as flukes.

I've checked for flukes via FW dip but don't see anything that would lead to it (no seasme-seed like things in the water). Since the scribbled is in QT, there's really no auto-feeder, so we feed them ourselves. It was eating fine yesterday, gobbling all pellets then now stops. I'll try to ramp up copper ASAP in case if it's velvet

 

[4FordFamily]

Feeding them “junk food” can be hard to wean off but a sudden change of eating habits after a week or two is usually a sign of discomfort or disease.

 

[Thomashtom]

I did not remove barrier with mine i waited till i put them in DT because there is alot more room for them to roam and the other fish distracts them. Right now they have their own established territory. In the DT they wont. It worked for me. Thanks

 

[mjreefs]

Feeding them “junk food” can be hard to wean off but a sudden change of eating habits after a week or two is usually a sign of discomfort or disease.

We actually did a water change after the FW dip and after that it came back to eating pellets again. Not sure if it is because of the FW dip that relieved its discomfort or anything.

 

[mjreefs]

Hello all! Just an update on my pair. I decided to remove the barrier between the two. There's aggression being exerted by the larger one over the smaller one. Will check again after an hour if things go hairy. So far, looks like the larger one is exercising its dominance. What do you think @pcon ?

 

[pcon]

Unfortunately there seems to be some issue going on with videos and mobile browsers, so I can’t see the videos you posted at the moment. Some aggression is to be expected. The duration of chasing should be short, physical contact should be minimal, no fin damage. If the male is cornering the other at the surface or in a corner then separate them. The positive singing that is easiest to discribe is to look for the male nuzzling the abdomen or caudal area of the female, at least in centropyge, now I mention it I’m not 100% sure Chaetodontoplus do it while courting. And look for them to go to the same hole while sleeping or when frightened. Both those signs indicate to me that they are fully paired or near fully paired.

 

[mjreefs]

Unfortunately there seems to be some issue going on with videos and mobile browsers, so I can’t see the videos you posted at the moment. Some aggression is to be expected. The duration of chasing should be short, physical contact should be minimal, no fin damage. If the male is cornering the other at the surface or in a corner then separate them. The positive singing that is easiest to discribe is to look for the male nuzzling the abdomen or caudal area of the female, at least in centropyge, now I mention it I’m not 100% sure Chaetodontoplus do it while courting. And look for them to go to the same hole while sleeping or when frightened. Both those signs indicate to me that they are fully paired or near fully paired.

Full pairing would take how long? I assume it would be weeks/months?

 

[pcon]

Fastest I have seen was ~20 min longest was 2 weeks.

 

[mjreefs]

Fastest I have seen was ~20 min longest was 2 weeks.

I see. So far, after 24 hours of releasing, the small one goes into hiding most of the time while the larger one is out and about (no PVC pipe fits him, sadly). But when it comes to feeding, there's no aggression of the larger towards the smaller, both of them go out feeding. I've also noticed that the larger scribbled's white on its face extended up to the pelvic fins. Does this mean anything?