Paul’s 240 gallon upgrade!

Dubs83

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In September of 2019, I wanted to start posting FTS progress pictures which will be found at the bottom of this initial post. I’ll try and update them every two weeks.
I’ve always wanted to post in this section and have finally managed to pull it off!

First, here’s a link to the original build.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-125g-build-w-basement-sump-fish-room.265644/

Last week, I picked up the tank and stand and managed to get it into the garage while I make my plan of action. The plan is to get the tank cleaned and drilled for an overflow and start getting some things to help the upgrade move a long. I already have a basement fish room where my sump is located so I plan on cleaning up some things I should have done differently.

Current equipment list that will make its way into this build:

Tank- 180 gallon (72”x24”x24”)
Return pump- ??? As I don’t think my Iwaki will cut it.
Skimmer- Reef Octopus Regal 250INT
Sump- current 125 gallon tank will be a new sump/fuge
Flow- two MP40s
Heaters- one 800 watt titanium and one 500 watt titanium (not sure if these will cut it)
UV sterilizer
BRS carbon reactor
Controller - APEX
Doser- Jebao 4 channel dosing pump

First question is- I’m going to need to upgrade my Iwaki 70RLT as I’m getting 850GPH at the display at just under 300 watts. I was thinking of installing two Reeflo Yellowtails which would give me about 1800-2000GPH at my head height while operating at 300 watts total. It would also provide me with some redundancy should one fail or need to be taken down for maintenance. However, this would basically max the pumps out. I wouldn’t be able to run any reactors with them. This isn’t biggest problem as I’m currently using a separate DC pump to run add one but it would be nice to clean up the clutter. Any advice on this? The head height from the basement is around 14 feet

Anyway, thanks for tagging a long!


FTS Progress pics:

September 9, 2019

6CB2BBB0-A16A-4C90-ACB2-34A491EB9C74.jpeg
 
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bubbaque

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If you are using the standard 180 with the durso standpipes for drains, you won't be able to push much water through them. Your return pumps will be more than evnoigh with those drains.
 
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Dubs83

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neilp2006

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So, I have the same tank, drilled on a short side for a synergy reef ghost overflow. I’ll be running 1” BA. and 1.5” return.

It’s supported by a 185g sump system consisting of a 29g overflow/ settling / water change tank, a 125g (skimmer, rtn, fuge) and a 29g cryptic refugium. This is all in my basement fish room, 12 feet down and 20 feet lateral. It’s about 17 feet total head.

I’ve decided to use s jebao dcp 18000. At full power- it’s pushing 1200gph. That’s half the rated , but it cost $130 and is 98w at full power. I’ll be running my fuge and cryptic off a return line tee manifold, leaving about 750gph through the DT . I’ll have 2 x xf250 gyres in DT for real flow. More details in my build thread

Reactors are being run off a separate manifold with a cheap 400gph pump.

Just fwiw. I know it might be an unpopular opinion, but the jebao is fitting my needs.

My build thread is here-
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/neil’s-in-wall-180-with-basement-fishroom.390436/

Looking forward to seeing this unfold. I enjoyed your previous tank build
 
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Dubs83

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So, I have the same tank, drilled on a short side for a synergy reef ghost overflow. I’ll be running 1” BA. and 1.5” return.

It’s supported by a 185g sump system consisting of a 29g overflow/ settling / water change tank, a 125g (skimmer, rtn, fuge) and a 29g cryptic refugium. This is all in my basement fish room, 12 feet down and 20 feet lateral. It’s about 17 feet total head.

I’ve decided to use s jebao dcp 18000. At full power- it’s pushing 1200gph. That’s half the rated , but it cost $130 and is 98w at full power. I’ll be running my fuge and cryptic off a return line tee manifold, leaving about 750gph through the DT . I’ll have 2 x xf250 gyres in DT for real flow. More details in my build thread

Reactors are being run off a separate manifold with a cheap 400gph pump.

Just fwiw. I know it might be an unpopular opinion, but the jebao is fitting my needs.

My build thread is here-
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/neil’s-in-wall-180-with-basement-fishroom.390436/

Looking forward to seeing this unfold. I enjoyed your previous tank build
First, absolutely awesome build!

So, I’ve had some really good results using the Triton method and as long as I’m able to source the supplements, I’d like to stick with it. With the Iwaki 70RT turning the current tank over at 850GPH and the total current volume at around 180 gallons, I’m not anywhere near the 10x turn over recommend by triton. I’d like to get at least 2000gph. Have you measured your flow at the display and you’re getting 1200gph? If so, I have absolutely no problem going with Jebao. Otherwise, I may go ahead with the Reeflo Yellowtails. My only concern is that I have not found a lot of information about them but they seem to hold their flow rate well with head height.

-Paul
 
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neilp2006

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Thanks for the positive comments!

Yeah- post 96 in my thread details my flow test. I had my return all glued up from sump to DT, and had a 33g brute in sump and a 5 gal bucket in DT. Filled in 15 seconds average (14.8, 14.7, 15.1, 14.8, 15.2)= 20g/min, 1200gph. It might decrease a bit over time (or increase as the biofilm coats the inside of the pipe) but I’m aiming for 600-800 gph, so I’m happy it worked out.

I originally bought it when my 125 was intended to be the DT and I had an in-stand 40b sump. It was only $20 more than the 8000 I had in my cart and figured I could get it, manifold it and have it run everything. So I bought that instead. 2 weeks later we got offered a job relocation and moved to a new place with the unfinished basement, so we upgraded to an in wall 180. And the fishroom I’m currently building out.

Triton recommends 10x DT vol through sump? Wow. I’d heard the 10-15x number earlier when I very briefly thought about it, but assumed that was including additional flow.

I do remember reading recently people having success with a modified triton using 4-5x DT flow plus 10x additional in the sump with powerheads. But I honestly don’t remember where.
 
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Dubs83

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Thanks for the positive comments!

Yeah- post 96 in my thread details my flow test. I had my return all glued up from sump to DT, and had a 33g brute in sump and a 5 gal bucket in DT. Filled in 15 seconds average (14.8, 14.7, 15.1, 14.8, 15.2)= 20g/min, 1200gph. It might decrease a bit over time (or increase as the biofilm coats the inside of the pipe) but I’m aiming for 600-800 gph, so I’m happy it worked out.

I originally bought it when my 125 was intended to be the DT and I had an in-stand 40b sump. It was only $20 more than the 8000 I had in my cart and figured I could get it, manifold it and have it run everything. So I bought that instead. 2 weeks later we got offered a job relocation and moved to a new place with the unfinished basement, so we upgraded to an in wall 180. And the fishroom I’m currently building out.

Triton recommends 10x DT vol through sump? Wow. I’d heard the 10-15x number earlier when I very briefly thought about it, but assumed that was including additional flow.

I do remember reading recently people having success with a modified triton using 4-5x DT flow plus 10x additional in the sump with powerheads. But I honestly don’t remember where.
Wow. I just looked over the DCP pumps and holy hell those 18/20k pumps have some serious muscle. I may just pull the trigger on a pair! I wish there was a way to integrate them with the APEX. Looks like the integration module is only compatible with the DCP10 and below. Are you by chance running these externally?
 

neilp2006

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Wow. I just looked over the DCP pumps and holy hell those 18/20k pumps have some serious muscle. I may just pull the trigger on a pair! I wish there was a way to integrate them with the APEX. Looks like the integration module is only compatible with the DCP10 and below. Are you by chance running these externally?
I’m running it internal. But I did patch it into my fill station just to see if it leaked when run external- it didn’t, but it was only running for an hour or so at 30%.

I have it controlled by an apex eb8 outlet, but no fancy controls. Just feed and maintenance modes.

Q- why would you need more complex apex control than on/off on a return pump? Just curious.
 
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Dubs83

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I’m running it internal. But I did patch it into my fill station just to see if it leaked when run external- it didn’t, but it was only running for an hour or so at 30%.
Awesome, as I think I’d like to keep them out of the water.

Q- why would you need more complex apex control than on/off on a return pump? Just curious.
I suppose the only necessity to integrate them with the APEX is to free up outlets. It’s not a big deal as I’m currently only using OFF, ON and FEED on my set up
 
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Dubs83

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Question, how are you guys heating your larger volume tanks? I’m currently using one 800w and one 500w titanium Finnex heaters on the 125 gallon with about 180 gallons of total volume. With the cold northwest jersey winters, I’m not sure I’ll be able to heat my planned 240 gallons of reef with these two or even 2 800watt heaters.

The basement sumproom is insulated and doesn’t drop below 60 degrees in the winter but it still poses a problem. What are you in the cold let regions doing to mitigate this?

-Paul
 
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Dubs83

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Okay, tank is cleaned. I figured we're a few posts in and I better attach a picture before we lose interest! I spent the morning scrubbing the tank clean and examining the existing return holes made by the previous owner. He had 1/2" sch80 bulk heads and I think I'll be sticking with the sch80 but be enlarging the holes up to 3/4". I know I can get away with sch40 but he didn't do a clean job drilling it and I'm afraid the bulkhead won't seal.

Anyhow, here are two photos of post cleaning with my daughter who seems more excited about it then I am :).
IMG_0236.JPG


IMG_0237.JPG


In addition to the clean up job, I've also began working on a sketch of my current fish room without any equipment in it to give you an idea of the space I'm working with. I'll be filling it in as we go a long here and I'd appreciate any input you guys may have. By all means fill it in with some crude ideas of what you would do!

Screen Shot 2018-08-28 at 3.05.49 PM.png


-Paul

View attachment 824473
 
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Dubs83

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Not much in terms of progress but I did place an order for some upgraded parts. I'll be cleaning out and setting up the tank I've been using as a QT tank to hold the fish for a few days while this upgrade unfolds. It's a 40 breeder with a HOB filter and a small power head. Hoping it isn't too cramped in there for a few days.

I haven't gotten much done in terms of a new/better fish room lay out but I will be paying closer attention to detail with my wiring and mounting. Anyhow, here's the equipment sheet so far and some of this will be repeat of the first post.

Tank and Sump:
Needless to say, the tank is a standard 180g (72,24,24). The sump will be the 125g a long with a 40 breeder settling tank / refugium. I'm expecting to have somewhere around 125 gallons of total sump volume bringing me to around 300 gallons total volume.

Ventilation and Humidity control:
A portable dehumidifier and a wave whole home ventilation tower with build it humidistat is what I'm currently using and it keeps, not only the fish room, but the entire basement at a consistent 45% relative humidity.

Flow and Return:
Some changes here. For in display flow, I'll be keeping my current MP40s but will be adding two MP10s (ordered this morning) along the back glass pane for additional water movement. In terms of a return pump, I decided to go with one Reeflo Yellowtail Gold (order as of this morning). My current Iwaki RLT70 will sit standby and serve as back up. Although, I've bounced the idea of going with a Jebao DCP series pump, and this isn't an attempt at stirring the pot, but I've used a few of their power heads with mixed out comes. Considering the amount of time I spend away from home, I wanted the piece of mind.

Adding random flow generators to the LocLines.

Overflow:
First, I'd like to thank @TaylorPilot for being so incredibly patient as I asked a billion question over the course of a few months. The dude has been seriously helpful.

This, however, has been a pain in my butt since I started with the 125. I've been using the ReefSynergy Shadow over flow and for the life of me, I could not get it to quiet down. My drains have been dead silent but the water making its way into the in tank box makes a crazy amount of noise. Considering how much success people have had with it, I take responsibility and admit that it may very well be user error but I've tried everything I could think of, shy of flying the guys down to NJ, without success.

I'll be replacing my current Shadow Overflow with Exotic Marine Systems 35" Overflow with 1" drains.

Heating:
This I'm still debating. I know the current set up of 800W and 500W will not cut it. Any suggestions on how you guys are heating your large tanks in cold climates would be appreciated. I have a zone available on my furnace and I'm tempted to run a titanium heat exchanger to heat the tank that way.

Skimmer:
Unchanged here. Reef Octopus Regal 250INT. This thing rocks!

Media Reactors:
AquaMaxx XXL reactors for GFO and Carbon

Water Quality:
I'm sticking with my BRS RO/DI unit but I will be adding a drinking water tank upstairs in the kitchen .

I'll also continue running my 40w UV sterilizer.


I also placed an order for some Aqua Forest goodies... thinking I may abandon Triton with this one considering how difficult it is to get my hands on their supplement. Anyway, right now it's just planning / prepping and cleaning while I wait for everything to arrive.

-Paul
 

neilp2006

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Not much in terms of progress but I did place an order for some upgraded parts. I'll be cleaning out and setting up the tank I've been using as a QT tank to hold the fish for a few days while this upgrade unfolds. It's a 40 breeder with a HOB filter and a small power head. Hoping it isn't too cramped in there for a few days.

I haven't gotten much done in terms of a new/better fish room lay out but I will be paying closer attention to detail with my wiring and mounting. Anyhow, here's the equipment sheet so far and some of this will be repeat of the first post.

Tank and Sump:
Needless to say, the tank is a standard 180g (72,24,24). The sump will be the 125g a long with a 40 breeder settling tank / refugium. I'm expecting to have somewhere around 125 gallons of total sump volume bringing me to around 300 gallons total volume.

Ventilation and Humidity control:
A portable dehumidifier and a wave whole home ventilation tower with build it humidistat is what I'm currently using and it keeps, not only the fish room, but the entire basement at a consistent 45% relative humidity.

Flow and Return:
Some changes here. For in display flow, I'll be keeping my current MP40s but will be adding two MP10s (ordered this morning) along the back glass pane for additional water movement. In terms of a return pump, I decided to go with one Reeflo Yellowtail Gold (order as of this morning). My current Iwaki RLT70 will sit standby and serve as back up. Although, I've bounced the idea of going with a Jebao DCP series pump, and this isn't an attempt at stirring the pot, but I've used a few of their power heads with mixed out comes. Considering the amount of time I spend away from home, I wanted the piece of mind.

Adding random flow generators to the LocLines.

Overflow:
First, I'd like to thank @TaylorPilot for being so incredibly patient as I asked a billion question over the course of a few months. The dude has been seriously helpful.

This, however, has been a pain in my *** since I started with the 125. I've been using the ReefSynergy Shadow over flow and for the life of me, I could not get it to quiet down. My drains have been dead silent but the water making its way into the in tank box makes a crazy amount of noise. Considering how much success people have had with it, I take responsibility and admit that it may very well be user error but I've tried everything I could think of, shy of flying the guys down to NJ, without success.

I'll be replacing my current Shadow Overflow with Exotic Marine Systems 35" Overflow with 1" drains.

Heating:
This I'm still debating. I know the current set up of 800W and 500W will not cut it. Any suggestions on how you guys are heating your large tanks in cold climates would be appreciated. I have a zone available on my furnace and I'm tempted to run a titanium heat exchanger to heat the tank that way.

Skimmer:
Unchanged here. Reef Octopus Regal 250INT. This thing rocks!

Media Reactors:
AquaMaxx XXL reactors for GFO and Carbon

Water Quality:
I'm sticking with my BRS RO/DI unit but I will be adding a drinking water tank upstairs in the kitchen .

I'll also continue running my 40w UV sterilizer.


I also placed an order for some Aqua Forest goodies... thinking I may abandon Triton with this one considering how difficult it is to get my hands on their supplement. Anyway, right now it's just planning / prepping and cleaning while I wait for everything to arrive.

-Paul
Like your formatting [emoji6]

That’s some great stuff. Really looking forward to this upgrade.

Re: overflow box. I know it’s moot at this point, but increasing the height of the standpipes so that the water level in the outside box was midline on the bulkhead holes (or higher) was the only way to make mine silent. It puts the emergency really close to the trim level, but once your water level stabilized, you can mark it an inch higher and recut. My e-drain and trickle are only 3/4” different.

Maybe look at a closed loop and heat exchanger from your hot water heater, or even installing a small on demand hot water heater and exchanger, abs using gas to heat your water. Independent small on demand keeps your house system from being an open loop and allowing legionella and other pathogens a breeding ground in the warmer months when water isn’t actively flowing in the loop (people underestimate this component). It’s way cheaper than electricity. There’s a way to control it with solenoids and your apex temp probe.

I thought about doing it fir mine, but my 3x 300w kept mine stable (old system, similar total volume). In a year, once I get some good consumption and cost data, I may switch to a heater loop if the cost/benefit makes sense.

Great stuff!!
 
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Dubs83

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Like your formatting [emoji6]

That’s some great stuff. Really looking forward to this upgrade.
Thanks!


Re: overflow box. I know it’s moot at this point, but increasing the height of the standpipes so that the water level in the outside box was midline on the bulkhead holes (or higher) was the only way to make mine silent. It puts the emergency really close to the trim level, but once your water level stabilized, you can mark it an inch higher and recut. My e-drain and trickle are only 3/4” different.
Yea. I really tried everything I could, including changing stand pipe heights. I don't want to get too opinionated about it as I'm sure it was user error.

Maybe look at a closed loop and heat exchanger from your hot water heater, or even installing a small on demand hot water heater and exchanger, abs using gas to heat your water. Independent small on demand keeps your house system from being an open loop and allowing legionella and other pathogens a breeding ground in the warmer months when water isn’t actively flowing in the loop (people underestimate this component). It’s way cheaper than electricity. There’s a way to control it with solenoids and your apex temp probe.
Yea, I'm kind of leaning towards a small on demand but can't seem to pinpoint one. Do you have any suggestions or links to someone who's done a small on demand heater?
 

neilp2006

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Unfortunately, I don’t know much more than I’m planning to research it and do it if the financials are favorable. There are a couple of threads around google, including one pretty big one that is text book not the way to do it if you don’t want to risk your home water supply, abs someone mentioned making it independent by getting a small unit. But other than that, I didn’t invest too much time on it.

Sorry about your shadow- that sucks.
 

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