pH toooooo low!

[bubbaque]

I was curious about his system in the garage. Seems like that should have helped if it had good air exchange. Of course, the water flow in relation to the pH sensor would make a difference in his case.

I have two gyres pointed at the surface which gives tons of surface agitation in the frag tank. Plus the frag tank return bubbles into a refugium in the garage before returning inside. It's the inside of the home is what's the issue. The fresh air in the garage is the same issue with kalk. The problem is in the home, I can bring in all the fresh air I want but inside the house just adds all the co2 right back in. The only time I get a ph rise is when I open the windows in my home, which isn't often as I'm in hot sunny Florida.

Dennis, I mean have you seen any negatives from the low ph, such as thinned sps tissue? Slow growth can just be assumed as most people think they have slow growth but when you posted your full tank shot I wasn't impressed with your growth, especially on the newish reboot of your system.

I'm sure you know Brad,(reefnjunkie) and his corals are some of the largest I've seen. I reached out to him also about low ph and he told me not to worry about it at all as his tank runs from 7.65 to 7.95 on the daily swing. He said he tried everything possible to raise ph and never noticed a difference on growth. The only difference he said he noticed was on his wallet.

 

[Abhishek]

Can't rely on windows. This is Houston.
I've tried a scrubber in the past on my previous tank. Didn't see much change and it was a PITA dealing with the media.
I'll research the degassing chamber. Not familiar with that.

Well , even I cant open windows living in Minnesota where it ran -6 F yesterday
Degassing was a fancy term used for a second chamber . Larger secondary chamber helps as the effluent from the main chamber has more dwelling time running through all those media. I remember converting a 24 inch media reactor to a secondary chamber which helped me a lot .
Once the effluent drips in the sump, you can place an airstone right there and bubble it which will help in further reducing C02.

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[Potatohead]

A quick and dirty way to see if a second chamber on the Rx will help is to fill a measuring cup with media and hang it on the side of the sump , stick the effluent line at the bottom and let it drip out the cup spout when it fills up. After a day or two you'll know if it's helping.

 

[d2mini]

Dennis, I mean have you seen any negatives from the low ph, such as thinned sps tissue? Slow growth can just be assumed as most people think they have slow growth but when you posted your full tank shot I wasn't impressed with your growth, especially on the newish reboot of your system.

I'm sure you know Brad,(reefnjunkie) and his corals are some of the largest I've seen. I reached out to him also bout low ph and he told me not to worry about it at all as his tank runs from 7.65 to 7.95 on the daily swing. He said he tried everything possible to raise ph and never noticed a difference on growth. The only differ nice he said he noticed was on his wallet.

That's good to know, thanks.
I haven't really noticed anything. Only thing I've been having a problem with lately is my birdsnest colony. Was doing great until after the addition of the CaRx. Started losing tissue. Before I lost the entire colony i fragged it.
Ended up keeping the two frags on my frag rack with no problem. Moved one frag to the original location and now it's losing tissue too. The other frag still looks good on the rack.
Can't think of anything (lighting/flow) that would be much different in either location and why it was fine for like a year prior.

 

[GoVols]

Well , even I cant open windows living in Minnesota where it ran -6 F yesterday
Degassing was a fancy term used for a second chamber . Larger secondary chamber helps as the effluent from the main chamber has more dwelling time running through all those media. I remember converting a 24 inch media reactor to a secondary chamber which helped me a lot .
Once the effluent drips in the sump, you can place an airstone right there and bubble it which will help in further reducing C02.

Regards,
Abhishek

I still open my windows, when I can.

GEO told me to run the Large Reborn media in stage one and the small ARM media in stage 2.
They said the small ARM media gives a better ph rebound than the Reborn and contains different trace elements.

I'm never below 8.0, but I've never had to struggle with ph before the GEO cal reactor was brought online.

 

[d2mini]

A quick and dirty way to see if a second chamber on the Rx will help is to fill a measuring cup with media and hang it on the side of the sump , stick the effluent line at the bottom and let it drip out the cup spout when it fills up. After a day or two you'll know if it's helping.

Good idea. Thanks.

 

[Abhishek]

@d2mini - whatever you do you cannot take away the SLOWEST ACRO GROWER title from me ..
pH high or low , most if not all of my acros seem to crawl to growth .
Am reluctant to change anything though if it's not broken

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[d2mini]

@d2mini - whatever you do you cannot take away the SLOWEST ACRO GROWER title from me ..
pH high or low , most if not all of my acros seem to crawl to growth .
Am reluctant to change anything though if it's not broken

Regards,
Abhishek

LOL, yeah and don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining about growth at all. I'm fine with it. Less time spent having to frag. haha

I'm just worried that once I start hitting the 7.5 range, coral skeletons are going to be weakening.
And once I start needing even more c02 to dissolve more media to keep up with more growth... i could be in real trouble.

 

[bubbaque]

I know this doesn't help with your low ph but might make you feel better about it. Studies show corals can regulate their internal ph and secrete acid to build skeleton. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/corals-can-regulate-internal-ph
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/stony-corals-secrete-acid-rich-proteins

 

[GoVols]

I know this doesn't help with your low ph but might make you feel better about it. Studies show corals can regulate their internal ph and secrete acid to build skeleton. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/corals-can-regulate-internal-ph
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/stony-corals-secrete-acid-rich-proteins

bubbaque,
Thanks for sharing

 

[Drauka99]

Yeah, i'm not pulling the reactor to run kalk.
What is "so much"? What kind of numbers did you see?

My daily swing was 7.8-7.9 for a high and 7.4-7.5 for a low. After adding an outside air line (My air line was very short seeing as the tank was on an outside wall, and I have an oversized skimmer) my ph went up to 8.2-8.4 for a high and 8.1 for a low.

I had a high alarm set at 8.3 for a kalk safety back then and had to adjust it up. My low was set at 7.5 before I got tired of it going off almost every night and I changed it to 7.3. After adding the air line I adjusted the PH low back to 7.8

 

[Drauka99]

Do you run an air stone in your frag tank to help with gas exchange? Or a separate skimmer?

I was running nano microbubbles in the sump for a while. Didn't seem to make much difference. This was before i added the calcium reactor.

I was curious about his system in the garage. Seems like that should have helped if it had good air exchange. Of course, the water flow in relation to the pH sensor would make a difference in his case.

the problem with adding an air stone is the same as with the skimmer introducing more air into the system, the house air has a slightly elevated CO2 level and that gets pumped into the water along with the added oxygen. Same with surface agitation. Diminishing returns with just adding more of the "bad/stale" air into the tank. you need a different air source to make a real difference or something to lessen the CO2 load in the house (i.e. a CO2 scubber or open window) which is not seen as a feasible solution in this case (and isn't often feasible IMHO)

 

[d2mini]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.
I think my first attempt, since it's just the easiest and can be tried immediately, is to run the effluent through some additional media.
Then a second quick test can be done by temporarily running an air line out a nearby window.

After that, I'll need to decide one one or more of the following...
1. Air line run to skimmer
2. Scrubber
3. Second chamber
4. Kalk reactor supplementing the CaRx. This one probably being the one I least would want to do, just due to the added complication to the overall system.

 

[GoVols]

the problem with adding an air stone is the same as with the skimmer introducing more air into the system, the house air has a slightly elevated CO2 level and that gets pumped into the water along with the added oxygen. Same with surface agitation. Diminishing returns with just adding more of the "bad/stale" air into the tank. you need a different air source to make a real difference or something to lessen the CO2 load in the house (i.e. a CO2 scubber or open window) which is not seen as a feasible solution in this case (and isn't often feasible IMHO)

Lol!!!
An hvr unit would get the job done$$$$$$$$$$$ ;Wacky

 

[Abhishek]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.
I think my first attempt, since it's just the easiest and can be tried immediately, is to run the effluent through some additional media.
Then a second quick test can be done by temporarily running an air line out a nearby window.

After that, I'll need to decide one one or more of the following...
1. Air line run to skimmer
2. Scrubber
3. Second chamber
4. Kalk reactor supplementing the CaRx. This one probably being the one I least would want to do, just due to the added complication to the overall system.

I like the plan of action although I would change the order as follows :-

1. Air line run to skimmer
2. Second chamber
3. Scrubber
4. Kalk reactor supplementing the CaRx. This one probably being the one I least would want to do, just due to the added complication to the overall system.

I used to run a CO2 scrubber and it gets pretty expensive if you have to change media once in 3-4 days and another chore that needs to get done . If the air line outside and a second chamber helps improve pH, I would skip the scrubber .

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[bubbaque]

Lol!!!
An hvr unit would get the job done$$$$$$$$$$$ ;Wacky

I've been thinking about adding this ERV to see if it helps but would hate to install it and not help much.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XJNZ1...t=&hvlocphy=9011801&hvtargid=pla-298703903434

 

[d2mini]

I like the plan of action although I would change the order as follows :-

1. Air line run to skimmer
2. Second chamber
3. Scrubber
4. Kalk reactor supplementing the CaRx. This one probably being the one I least would want to do, just due to the added complication to the overall system.

I used to run a CO2 scrubber and it gets pretty expensive if you have to change media once in 3-4 days and another chore that needs to get done . If the air line outside and a second chamber helps improve pH, I would skip the scrubber .

Regards,
Abhishek

Sorry, I should have mentioned those were in no particular order.... except the last one. haha
But thanks for the suggestion. Sounds good.

 

[GoVols]

I've been thinking about adding this ERV to see if it helps but would hate to install it and not help much.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XJNZ1...t=&hvlocphy=9011801&hvtargid=pla-298703903434

Yeah,
That would be a bummer, if it didn't pull it off.

When my central and heat air unit dies, I'll get some quotes for built in EVR units, but (lol) I'm riding the unit that we've got, to it's death ;Dead

 

[Brew12]

the problem with adding an air stone is the same as with the skimmer introducing more air into the system, the house air has a slightly elevated CO2 level and that gets pumped into the water along with the added oxygen. Same with surface agitation. Diminishing returns with just adding more of the "bad/stale" air into the tank. you need a different air source to make a real difference or something to lessen the CO2 load in the house (i.e. a CO2 scubber or open window) which is not seen as a feasible solution in this case (and isn't often feasible IMHO)

I didn't reply to his response to not hijack the thread but will address it really quickly. With his frag tank in the garage it should get fresher air. If the water flow went display, sump, frag tank, display tank then I felt it should have helped pH since the fresher garage air would have stripped out the extra CO2 from the skimmer.

 

[d2mini]

I didn't reply to his response to not hijack the thread but will address it really quickly. With his frag tank in the garage it should get fresher air. If the water flow went display, sump, frag tank, display tank then I felt it should have helped pH since the fresher garage air would have stripped out the extra CO2 from the skimmer.

No worries. It's all related and I want to know what's going on. Will only help me.