Phosphate saturation in a new tank

[Ziggy17]

Question. Should I saturate my sand and new rocks with phosphate while I cycle, in an effort to get parameters as close to possible to the old tank before I switch everything over?

I’m upgrading my tank to a 150g, from a 60g. Which means new sand and a new rockscape. I’m still using my old rockscape, but this footprint is allowing me to add a new one for the other half. The new scape probably is equal to the size of the current. I’m using 120lbs of new arag alive sand for a 2” sand bed. So knowing that dry rock soaks up phosphate and so does sand, I’m worried about bottoming out until each have phosphates in them and the tank stabilizes.

So my thought is to start the new tank like a new fishless cycle. Dose ammonium until a steady 10ppm nitrate and dose phosphate to keep .1ppm until the cycle is over and stable. Then move the fish coral and rockwork over to the new tank, tear down the old.

Makes sense or should I just skip cycle when the new build is done and not worry about the nutrient numbers being spot on? I’m just trying to lesson any shock of the coral. I’m in zero hurry so time and patience is on my side.

 

[rishma]

I like this idea to dose phosphate so new rock and sand surfaces have phosphate preloaded. I’m going to save that this idea for my next build.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In a dry rock and sand start, getting some phosphate down is a fine plan, but it will take some ongoing effort since there’s no magic amount to add. I’d keep adding it until you get some remaining detectable 24 h later, then stop even if it’s below your target. You can always raise it more later, but going back is harder.

 

[Ziggy17]

In a dry rock and sand start, getting some phosphate down is a fine plan, but it will take some ongoing effort since there’s no magic amount to add. I’d keep adding it until you get some remaining detectable 24 h later, then stop even if it’s below your target. You can always raise it more later, but going back is harder.

Yeah, I don’t mind babysitting this for awhile. I figured I’d use the bottled Neophos to dose, and use their dosing guideline on the bottle. It will at least give me a guideline how much to dose for a particular effect. And then tweak it as needed until we can get in the .08 ballpark, like you said, after a 24-48 hr period.

 

[Ziggy17]

I like this idea to dose phosphate so new rock and sand surfaces have phosphate preloaded. I’m going to save that this idea for my next build.

Why not right?
I just don’t want to look at brown sticks or ticked off torches cause the nutrients are way off on the new start.

 

[rishma]

I like this idea to dose phosphate so new rock and sand surfaces have phosphate preloaded. I’m going to save that this idea for my next build.

Why not right?
I just don’t want to look at brown sticks or ticked off torches cause the nutrients are way off on the new start.

I wouldn’t use neophos. Here is what I’d do…get some mono/di/tri sodium phosphate from loudwolf and mix your own. Here is a good thread

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-phosphate-dosing-recipe.1109919/
Also, when you start doing, just dose enough each day for 0.1-0.15ppm and keep measuring until it stabilizes as Randy mentioned. If it’s fresh sand or dry rock it could table a TON of dosing before it stabilize. Let us know what your experience is.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I’d recommend food grade sodium phosphate and dose 0.05 ppm daily.
Neophos is needlessly expensive, has no purity assurance, and knowing the actual concentration seems problematic for users.

 

[Garf]

I like this idea to dose phosphate so new rock and sand surfaces have phosphate preloaded. I’m going to save that this idea for my next build.

Indeed, rinsing sand with tapwater, that's relatively high in phosphate may be beneficial.

 

[Ziggy17]

Indeed, rinsing sand with tapwater, that's relatively high in phosphate may be beneficial.

Yeah, but I’m using live sand. So rinsing it would not be advantageous.

 

[Miami Reef]

I personally would keep it simple. Add everything directly to the tank and just take it as it comes. It’s very easy to quickly saturate rocks in a display tank when you have sodium phosphate on hand.

 

[Ziggy17]

Unfortunately in Canada, our choices for Sodium Phosphate for purchase is quite limited. Yes, I can buy 500g for $51, but now I have a 30 year supply, when I can but a small bottle of neophos for $10 and it will do what is needed here. I typically buy dry good and DIY mix, but I have more unused bags of dry good from DIY than I know what to do with :)

 

[Ziggy17]

I personally would keep it simple. Add everything directly to the tank and just take it as it comes. It’s very easy to quickly saturate rocks in a display tank when you have sodium phosphate on hand.

I hear ya, and part of me is leaning this way. But I’m basically retired now, so doing it the long way is appealing and gives me a task :)

 

[Miami Reef]

I hear ya, and part of me is leaning this way. But I’m basically retired now, so doing it the long way is appealing and gives me a task :)

Then do it the long way. You’ll get the rocks presoaked and it will speed up the maturation cycle if the process can happen much sooner than the tank startup. You’ll get a head start.

Use Neophos. Purity grades are nice and cheap…but not for you. In your case, Neophos is better.

I like to keep things realistic. Your tank won’t explode or go to flames by using Neophos lol.

 

[rishma]

Oh, ya. I’d use neophos if it was cheaper. Might take a big bottle!

I really like the long way idea because I hope my next tank is set up while my current tank is running. In 3 decades of reefing I’ve never been able to take my time and it’s always a scramble. Being able to set up the new tank and move animals over when I think it’s ready is a dream.

 

[Patx]

Unfortunately in Canada, our choices for Sodium Phosphate for purchase is quite limited. Yes, I can buy 500g for $51, but now I have a 30 year supply, when I can but a small bottle of neophos for $10 and it will do what is needed here. I typically buy dry good and DIY mix, but I have more unused bags of dry good from DIY than I know what to do with :)

I use this

https://aquariumdirect.ca/qc/traite...zQifGJIXYXKPmqSGjdj-HQS_Fzr7n-5yDDW1IMV6ipEFS

 

[Ziggy17]

thanks everyone for the input. I try not to get married to any ideas, so ideas that are different are welcomed. Like mentioned, I’ve also always rushed the new build and had hiccups along the way. So this time, I’m going to go low and slow and see if it works out more favourable. The end result may be the same, but it’s a new approach for me.

With the sodium phosphate.., I wish we could get stuff cheaper here. Unfortunately we can’t. I paid $250 for 100g of food grade Sodium Nitrate to DIY my own nitrate solution. I’m pretty sure the federal government now has me on a watch list because of it… haha. And I have a 300 year supply of ammonium haha

All fun and I love the chemistry aspect this facet of the hobby brings. Way more excited than my Africans or South American tanks were in terms of water chemistry. Although I do miss my peacocks, tropheus, and geophagus tanks…..

 

[Ziggy17]

I use this

https://aquariumdirect.ca/qc/traite...zQifGJIXYXKPmqSGjdj-HQS_Fzr7n-5yDDW1IMV6ipEFS

You’re not concerned by negative affects of elevated potassium may have on your system?

 

[Patx]

Analyse garantie(%)
Available Phosphate(P2O5) ....................52%
Soluble Potash(K2O)............................. 34%

Not really.
Adding 0.03 ppm po4
Will add even less K (around 0.025ppm)

 

[Patx]

Solution:
6gram/litres.
Adding 1ml in 55gallons = po4 +0.01ppm and k = +0.008ppm

 

[Doctor Derp]

I've been trying to get my system to stabilize at .1 for three months now. Barebottom start with real live rock and a heavy acropora load are making it impossible.