Phosphates: Do you even EXPORT bro?

[living_tribunal]

Your magical 5x N/P ratio doesn't appear to be supported by your linked paper?
The paper clearly states the following;

In our experiments, a phosphate concentration of ~ 0.3 μM (0.0285ppm) at a N/P ratio of 22:1 yielded an overall healthy phenotype.

*Accordingly, it is likely that the absolute N/P ratio becomes also less critical for the proper functioning of the symbionts when phosphate concentrations exceed a vital supply threshold (> 0.3 μM) (0.0285ppm), even when the symbionts are rapidly proliferating.*

so if PO4 is maintained at 0.03 ppm or above, which is typically advised, a low N to P ratio becomes unimportant. It seems to me that suggesting an extreme low N to P ratio of 5x as optimal is misguided.

Perhaps the increase coral growth in your 7 month old system was just the result of the system maturing?

It did if you actually read it, it happens to the best of us.

I could continue posting a lot of other supporting material regarding how increased phosphates both on an absolute level and a relative level to nitrates increases growth but we’ve been through this before.

You don’t like coral research, I get it! Run your reef how you want!

This article addresses the relative P impacts in regards to N. The other research from the other phosphate thread were what displayed the impact from heightened P values on an absolute basis.

Not sure where you got this 7 month figure from but it sure seems like a passive aggressive jab.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

It did if you actually read it, it happens to the best of us.

I could continue posting a lot of other supporting material regarding how increased phosphates both on an absolute level and a relative level to nitrates increases growth but we’ve been through this before.

You don’t like coral research, I get it! Run your reef how you want!

This article addresses the relative P impacts in regards to N. The other research from the other phosphate thread were what displayed the impact from heightened P values on an absolute basis.

Not sure where you got this 7 month figure from but it sure seems like a passive aggressive jab.

Ah, firstly, what you copy/pasted from the paper simply says that the approximate range of N/P ratios in coral reef waters were 4.3/1 to 7.2/1. It does not say that this ratio is necessary for healthy coral.
What the paper did say was >>>> We note that the attributes “high” and “low” are introduced to facilitate comparison of the nutrient conditions in the context of our experiment and do not necessarily represent all natural reef environments.

&

We exposed corals to imbalanced N/P ratios in long-term experiments and found that the undersupply of phosphate severely disturbed the symbiosis

&

In our experiments, a phosphate concentration of ~ 0.3 μM (0.0285ppm) at a N/P ratio of 22:1 yielded an overall healthy phenotype.

and

*Accordingly, it is likely that the absolute N/P ratio becomes also less critical for the proper functioning of the symbionts when phosphate concentrations exceed a vital supply threshold (> 0.3 μM) (0.0285ppm), even when the symbionts are rapidly proliferating.*

& secondly, don't get all defensive when someone queries & questions the overall theory you have derived from reading a few scientific papers.

cheers

 

[MnFish1]

Ah, firstly, what you copy/pasted from the paper simply says that the approximate range of N/P ratios in coral reef waters were 4.3/1 to 7.2/1. It does not say that this ratio is necessary for healthy coral.
What the paper did say was >>>> We note that the attributes “high” and “low” are introduced to facilitate comparison of the nutrient conditions in the context of our experiment and do not necessarily represent all natural reef environments.

&

We exposed corals to imbalanced N/P ratios in long-term experiments and found that the undersupply of phosphate severely disturbed the symbiosis

&

In our experiments, a phosphate concentration of ~ 0.3 μM (0.0285ppm) at a N/P ratio of 22:1 yielded an overall healthy phenotype.

and

*Accordingly, it is likely that the absolute N/P ratio becomes also less critical for the proper functioning of the symbionts when phosphate concentrations exceed a vital supply threshold (> 0.3 μM) (0.0285ppm), even when the symbionts are rapidly proliferating.*

& secondly, don't get all defensive when someone queries & questions the overall theory you have derived from reading a few scientific papers.

cheers

Curious - do you think the Redfield ratio has anything to do with what we should do in our tanks and why?"

 

[Zeal]

My phosphates went up to 1 recently and started seeing some Dinos

started dosing Phosphate E for 2 days 2ML in the skimmer and 2ML right on The filter pad and it dropped to 0.25

following morning the filter pad was absolutely disgusting

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Curious - do you think the Redfield ratio has anything to do with what we should do in our tanks and why?"

No.

 

[living_tribunal]

No.

It certainly seems like you don’t think higher phosphate levels are correlated to higher growth.

Is this a factual statement or not?

 

[MnFish1]

No.

Thanks I didnt think so

 

[LetItReef]

After my one week of water change, I dose Phosphate E. Works for me.

 

[Seanybaggs123]

GFO for me

Edit: I also have a thriving refugium and do 15% ish water changes weekly

Edit again:

I now have Dinos. Have done some reading on how zero phosphates and Nitrates affect that. I will no longer be running GFO. Refugium and water changes only.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Nothing a bag of chemipure elite couldn’t solve,

Can you give an example of what it did solve?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

They have tested the efficacy of the redfield ratio on various corals. While growth was still strong, it wasn’t as strong as the lower N/P levels of natural reefs which hover between 4-7x N/P.

The redfield ratio is a bit of an arbitrary dart thrown at the coral growing optimization wall based on a loose correlation. The logic is sound, and it’s a good place to start, but not the answer.

in nature, in normal oligotrophic waters, corals mainly depend on organic nitrogen and phosphorus to build up their specific building material ratio.
The N and P availability is very important during periods of increased growth but the inorganic N/P ratio in the water column of a closed system will not tell a thing for the availability where the action is.
I can not find any "logic" between a Redfield ratio or a typical symbiodinium C/N/P ratio, which may be 303:52:1, and the availability of inorganic nutrients in the water column of a closed system.

 

[living_tribunal]

in nature, in normal oligotrophic waters, corals mainly depend on organic nitrogen and phosphorus to build up their specific building material ratio.
The N and P availability is very important during periods of increased growth but the inorganic N/P ratio in the water column of a closed system will not tell a thing for the availability where the action is.
I can not find any "logic" between a Redfield ratio or a typical symbiodinium C/N/P ratio, which may be 303:52:1, and the availability of inorganic nutrients in the water column of a closed system.

This is true sure but since we can utilize natural reefs symbiodinium C/N/P as a good proxy for nutrient availability then at least starting with inorganic nutrient levels around these figures in a closed system is a good place to start.

 

[Hemmdog]

Can you give an example of what it did solve?

Lowering phosphates at a safe pace and not lowering them too much that they test to zero.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Lowering phosphates at a safe pace and not lowering them too much that they test to zero.

It would be interesting to know what is considered to be the safe space?
Chemi pure I know ( available in EU) which also removes phosphates is the "elite", a mix of GAC, an ion exchange raisin and iron-oxide to bind phosphorus. How the product will prevent phosphates to test zero?

 

[Hemmdog]

It would be interesting to know what is considered to be the safe space?
Chemi pure I know ( available in EU) which also removes phosphates is the "elite", a mix of GAC, an ion exchange raisin and iron-oxide to bind phosphorus. How the product will prevent phosphates to test zero?

It has a limited amount of iron-oxide. The media would need replaced before you hit zero if you use it when you have elevated PO4 at about 0.1ppm and use the bag size rated for your system size.

 

[Jmass015]

A small algae turf scrubber and a 10% weekly water change.

 

[FragileReefer]

All you boys with your big old sumps complaining about export... Here a real pickle!

I run a 15g nano anemone tank for 2 years now and my phosphates are running out of control.
Nitrates stay 5-8ppm but phosphate is at .54.

I don't have a skimmer and don't feel like a filterpad will remove the bound up phosphate from a lanthanum chloride treatment.

So I'm dosing some microbacter7 and placed a two brightwell PO4 xport cubes in my media basket. Also switched to bioactif salt from tropic marine to do some gentle carbon dosing. After 48 hours I'm down to .42 phosphate. So I'm on the right track I just don't wanna strip the water too far.

Anyone else have tricks for dealing with phosphates in a nano tank with less equipment? I would love a tiny algae scrubber or refugium options.

 

[Lasse]

Why not just let it be?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[FragileReefer]

Why not just let it be?

Sincerely Lasse

Oh I have a turf and bubble algae problem. And the bubble algae is killing a chalice in the back. I let it be till I start losing corals. This is first step to doing something. I think most of that is pretty gentle

 

[Ling_Thing]

The best method of p04 export is Acropora lol. I have to dose neophos in my ato water to continually dose p04 otherwise it bottoms out on me. Too many acros in my tank!