PIJAC Alert: Hawaii SB2003 to End Aquarium Fishery

[shred5]

It may not be as bad as it sounds. I read the humane society press release, and it seems to me what they did was void existing licenses because there was insufficient scrutiny or oversight in the previous issuing process. I did not see any statement that they would never issue a license in the future. It could just be a first step towards better management of the fishery. Something like: collectors have to reapply for a license and do a better job of stating what and where they are collecting and how they will ensure sustainability.

That would be nice if that were true and I hope it would be the case but I have not heard that yet. I have read several different articles and none state that but anything is possible especially if people stand up... Suspending licence like that would put allot collectors out of business fast too. We can cross our fingers and hope... A short suspension may not hurt to bad and may actually be a wake up call to the industry... It would make the prices rise so people actually start to care when it hurts their pocket books and also help speed up captive breeding programs.. It is just to early right now yet.. What did I just see on the pacific blue tang? They get like 50,000 eggs or something crazy like that and only get 3 fish.. They also only spawn a few times a year? i guess since then someone else has had success too.. Also I heard their next batch did a little better too..

 

[Sarah24!]

Hello,

What all types of fish will this affect, other than the yellow tang? I’m curious if it will affect coral collection as well?

 

[AlexStinson]

Hello,

What all types of fish will this affect, other than the yellow tang? I’m curious if it will affect coral collection as well?

AFAIK there isn't coral harvested from Hawaii. Years ago some softies came from there but I don't think you have ever been allowed to collect hard corals. Is Aloha Corals still around to put in .02?

 

[Syed123]

Was at my local fish store yesterday. They had a notice that Hawaiian fish prices are increasing due to permit issues in Hawaii. Sure enough the usual price of the yellow Tang ($34.99) was up to $99.99! Crazy stuff.

 

[shred5]

No corals have came out of Hawaii.. i know live rock was banned late 80's early 90's.

I posted this to someone else but:

There are a some tangs, wrasses, anthias, eels that are exclusive to Hawaii.. I had listed some a while back but do not remember all. Most fish are also found in other places even the yellow tang. The real problem is the US get almost if not all yellow tangs from Hawaii. I know the Achilles Tang is another that will be in massive short supply, golden dwarf eel, flame fairy wrasses, potters angel .. I do know potters and flame wrasses are exclusively from Hawaii...


I also saw a thread on anther forum where someone listed allot of fish almost exclusively from Hawaii..
There is also a list somewhere on the internet that lists which come from Hawaii and which are exclusive from there.

 

[andrewkw]

Off the top of my head :

Yellow Tang
Black Tang
Achilles Tang
Kole Tang
Flame Angel
Potters Angel
Bandit Angel
Flame Wrasse
Mystery Wrasse
Golden Dwarf Eel
Bartletts Anthias
Declivis Butterfly
Helfrichi Firefish

Then there are some more uncommon stuff as well. At least here in Canada I have seen Yellow Tangs from Christmas Island coming in which are more expensive but not crazy expensive. One thing you have to remember is Christmas Island gets transshipped from Hawaii since it's not like there is a major airport there. In the past you'd get say flame angels from Christmas that would be a little bit more expensive because they made that extra flight and would sometimes look the same sometimes slightly different. However IF the Hawaii wholesalers close down it will not be as easy to ship Christmas > Hawaii > your location.

 

[shred5]

Off the top of my head :

Yellow Tang
Black Tang
Achilles Tang
Kole Tang
Flame Angel
Potters Angel
Bandit Angel
Flame Wrasse
Mystery Wrasse
Golden Dwarf Eel
Bartletts Anthias
Declivis Butterfly
Helfrichi Firefish

Then there are some more uncommon stuff as well. At least here in Canada I have seen Yellow Tangs from Christmas Island coming in which are more expensive but not crazy expensive. One thing you have to remember is Christmas Island gets transshipped from Hawaii since it's not like there is a major airport there. In the past you'd get say flame angels from Christmas that would be a little bit more expensive because they made that extra flight and would sometimes look the same sometimes slightly different. However IF the Hawaii wholesalers close down it will not be as easy to ship Christmas > Hawaii > your location.

Yea, even if they still come from Christmas island the demand becomes much higher for those fish from there if you cant get them from Hawaii. This will push up the prices significantly on those fish.. Also lets now say yellow tangs are way high in price so people start to turn to other tangs it pushes up the prices on all other tangs.. Yellow tangs may even be the most popular tang in the U.S. and a big reason is price because Hawaii is close like you said. That is a big loss just on yellow tangs.

 

[mrpizzaface]

I am surprised more people aren't freaking out.

 

[squampton]

On another forum I was in the minority when it came to not supporting a ban, seems for some reason many in this hobby are pro-bans even though they keep fish, when I ask they answer is we should all be buying captive bred fish.

I know there are some species being bred in captivity, but is there a large enough variety to really make captive bred a viable option currently?

I am in Canada and other then clowns there are not a whole lot of captive bred in my local stores.

 

[shred5]

On another forum I was in the minority when it came to not supporting a ban, seems for some reason many in this hobby are pro-bans even though they keep fish, when I ask they answer is we should all be buying captive bred fish.

I know there are some species being bred in captivity, but is there a large enough variety to really make captive bred a viable option currently?

I am in Canada and other then clowns there are not a whole lot of captive bred in my local stores.

That is because they know nothing about breeding fish, this is not the freshwater hobby. Allot of the fish we keep are broadcast spawners. They spawn in massive groups and let their eggs float in the plankton... Clownfish and allot of gobies spawn on a media which makes them easier. There is not enough captive bred fish or big enough facilities right now just to have the rug ripped out. If it was slowly phased out I think it might be easier.

Captive raised is probably the most viable option.. The fish are usually collected post larval stage and raised. This has little impact on wild populations because most fish this small do not survive. But I can see these same groups having issues with this because they are never happy.

There has been advances made in breeding some tang though..

Here is a video on captive bred blue tang and you will see we are far from doing many of these in any quantity.




This video talks about captive raised in part of it.. Plus you will see what is damaging the reef far more than collecting fish.. It is really sad to see dynamite fishing.

 

[andrewkw]

Captive bred yellow tangs are going to cost more than Christmas Island ones. I don't really agree captive bred is the most viable. I'm not really speaking about me personally but the general public. That being said I would be more inclined to buy a high end captive bred fish for more then a regular fish like a yellow tang.

The general public though despite what you see posted not so much. When ORA was breeding Mandarins no one wanted to pay for a fish that was eating, they'd rather get 2 or 3 wild ones and take their chances.

Despite the great things a few places are doing we are likely at least 10 years away from having the bulk of the fish we keep available as captive bred and maybe 100 before they can be profitable. I may be exaggerating a bit but economically speaking in most cases it's going to be cheaper to catch fish in the ocean and ship them across the world, including a stop at a wholesaler rather then raising them for 6 months or a year. Not to mention keeping the breeding stock happy and healthy.

As long as collection is done responsibly it doesn't bother me.

 

[Dana Riddle]

By the way it should not be one Person like Julian it should be a board of people like Julian or Charles Delbeek. I would like to see people in the industry like Kevin Kohen. It would be even more helpful to have someone like @Dana Riddle since he was in Hawaii. People from the major aquariums around the world. We just need some voice.. After 30 years of being in the reef hobby and longer keeping saltwater and freshwater I care about the hobby and I also am a avid scuba diver and care about the ocean. I do not dive as much anymore but I wish I did.

There needs to be a balance. Cutting out collecting of fish does not save the oceans.

These 'conservationists' (those wanting to completely shut down the aquarium fishery) in Hawaii are cowards. They know they cannot possibly tell native Hawaiians who rely on eating fish they catch as a matter of survival that they cannot fish anymore. Instead, they attack an 'enemy' that is small, one that can be whipped through opinion based on emotion. I do not need transect counts performed by scientists such as Dr. Bill Walsh, Lindsey Kramer, and others (although I greatly respect their work that shows the fishery is sustainable) - I lived in a house that overlooked a reef for 18 years - I can tell you that the Yellow Tang population had increased over the years. Unfortunately, many in Hawaii, especially on the Big Island, did not have my perspective and believe the nonsense spread by these radical environmentalists. The marine reserves established through efforts of Sara Peck, Tina Owens, Dr. Walsh and many others were a compromise, and is a model for other through out the world. But today emotion clouds the picture and will never result in compromise.

 

[shred5]

Thus is also a positive and worth a watch..

 

[shred5]

These 'conservationists' (those wanting to completely shut down the aquarium fishery) in Hawaii are cowards. They know they cannot possibly tell native Hawaiians who rely on eating fish they catch as a matter of survival that they cannot fish anymore. Instead, they attack an 'enemy' that is small, one that can be whipped through opinion based on emotion. I do not need transect counts performed by scientists such as Dr. Bill Walsh, Lindsey Kramer, and others (although I greatly respect their work that shows the fishery is sustainable) - I lived in a house that overlooked a reef for 18 years - I can tell you that the Yellow Tang population had increased over the years. Unfortunately, many in Hawaii, especially on the Big Island, did not have my perspective and believe the nonsense spread by these radical environmentalists. The marine reserves established through efforts of Sara Peck, Tina Owens, Dr. Walsh and many others were a compromise, and is a model for other through out the world. But today emotion clouds the picture and will never result in compromise.

Thank you for posting Dana your opinion is important..

Speaking of Bill Walsh.
This video is a couple years old but still worth the watch..

 

[Dana Riddle]

Thank you for posting Dana your opinion is important..

Speaking of Bill Walsh.
This video is a couple years old but still worth the watch..

Thank you Dave for posting this.

 

[Instigate]

Off the top of my head :

Yellow Tang
Black Tang
Achilles Tang
Kole Tang
Flame Angel
Potters Angel
Bandit Angel
Flame Wrasse
Mystery Wrasse
Golden Dwarf Eel
Bartletts Anthias
Declivis Butterfly
Helfrichi Firefish

Then there are some more uncommon stuff as well. At least here in Canada I have seen Yellow Tangs from Christmas Island coming in which are more expensive but not crazy expensive. One thing you have to remember is Christmas Island gets transshipped from Hawaii since it's not like there is a major airport there. In the past you'd get say flame angels from Christmas that would be a little bit more expensive because they made that extra flight and would sometimes look the same sometimes slightly different. However IF the Hawaii wholesalers close down it will not be as easy to ship Christmas > Hawaii > your location.

Looks like yellow and kole tangs are found other places. Idk if they are currently collected anywhere else. But they are present elsewhere and I would assume could be collected elsewhere. I didn't go down your whole list but I wonder what fish are exclusive to Hawaii.

https://www.fishlore.com/profile-kole-tang.htm
https://www.fishlore.com/Profiles-YellowTang.htm

 

[Scooter90254]

I have a few thoughts.

1. The HSUS is generally full of bologna. They claim victory all the time to increase funding.

2. A complete ban is nonsense. There has to be an sustainable harvest number. Zero harvest could actually be detrimental to the eco system.

3. This is just another example of a group of social justice warriors that has absolutely zero knowledge on the topic actually changing laws.

4. We need balance. The answer is somewhere between a complete ban and practices that actually hurt the reefs.

 

[drawman]

On another forum I was in the minority when it came to not supporting a ban, seems for some reason many in this hobby are pro-bans even though they keep fish, when I ask they answer is we should all be buying captive bred fish.

I know there are some species being bred in captivity, but is there a large enough variety to really make captive bred a viable option currently?

I am in Canada and other then clowns there are not a whole lot of captive bred in my local stores.

Yeah it's an interesting dynamic and most don't take the time to think about the process so emotion comes into play. These people would do well to ask the themselves the following questions.

If collection of a species like the yellow tang does not have significant impact on wild populations and these populations are not in decline AND it requires more resources, electricity, etc to produce a captive bread yellow tang then why is captive bred better? Does a captive bred yellow tang have more right to be in a tank? It's almost as if people want to make this point. If you feel no fish belongs in a fish tank then this is not the hobby for you.

I think we need to really support both sustainable fisheries (and this IS the one) and captive breeding initiatives. I feel we will be the hobby with the knowledge and skill to repopulate the reefs of both coral and fish. Governments have been too slow to impact real, meaningful change. Private enterprises like those run by Walt Smith and Ken Neidermeyer seem to be doing much more and have a history in the aquarium trade. I'm all for limits and bans that are backed by science...this is just nonsense.

 

[Dana Riddle]

The West Hawaii Fishery Council forwarded this Environmental Assessment to me last night. In essence, the West Hawaii aquarium fishery is sustainable.
http://oeqc2.doh.hawaii.gov/EA_EIS_...Hawaii-Island-Commercial-Aquarium-Permits.pdf

 

[reefwiser]

Hawaii fishery has always been Sustainable it is a group of animal activist that try to portray it as not being so.