PIJAC Alert: Hawaii SB2003 to End Aquarium Fishery

[shred5]

Well it sounds like it is over..

Now matter what they found above:

http://m.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2018/04/hawaii-court-voids-all.html

 

[drawman]

I wonder if that info is current? I thought there was a waiting period for comments before they decide...

 

[shred5]

It is it current I posted another thread with more info...

Surprised no one cares .. This is serious if this holds which looks like it will this time. This will cause prices to go through the roof. It could cause a domino effect by putting pressure on other areas causing them to close to protect their resources. A big chunk of our fish come from there and it means quite a few fish will no longer be available.. Hobby can handle some coral being banned since it is easy to propagate but not this amount of fish..

This is going to affect the lfs, importers, food manufactures and even the equipment supplies. People complain about coral prices wait till a yellow tang is now rare and cost 500 bucks. If this hold which it look like the hobby will get smaller.

It might be the kick in the butt the hobby needs to wake up though.. We have no voice and there was no reason for them to do this.. People tend not to do anything till it affects them directly.

 

[Brew12]

This is not good.

 

[drawman]

Agreed we have a small voice and are easy to attack sadly.

 

[shred5]

What is sad is people seem to care more about a thread on a mushroom vs something like this. I do not think people understand what this is going to do to the hobby if this stands which now looks like it is final. This will even effect coral vendors, equipment vendors, because less people will be in the hobby, I mean this will even have a effect on R2R. This is major because we are going to loose allot of fish from the hobby. This will especially push up tang prices. The captive breeding will never be able to keep up yet nor will it ever for allot of species.

Fact is this should not have happened with the study that came out last week. With how many people show up for a frag swap and how many reef clubs there are plenty of people to make a difference. I just do not think people realise the impact this has and how many fish come from Hawaii.. I know people have become immune to this situation in Hawaii but this time it is for real.

 

[tangtime]

As they say, all good things come to an end? I support a ban if it means protecting the environment for future generations. Have to start somewhere and if it was up to this current administration the ocean would be a stripped of anything that can generate $$$ and be a dumping ground. Kudos to states enacting laws to protect, its a start!

I want my kids and his kids and so on to be able to enjoy the ocean and it’s inhabitants instead of a bunch of sand and water with little to no life.

 

[shred5]

As they say, all good things come to an end? I support a ban if it means protecting the environment for future generations. Have to start somewhere and if it was up to this current administration the ocean would be a stripped of anything that can generate $$$ and be a dumping ground. Kudos to states enacting laws to protect, its a start!

I want my kids and his kids and so on to be able to enjoy the ocean and it’s inhabitants instead of a bunch of sand and water with little to no life.

A study came out last week and said the hobby had no impact on fish populations in this area. I am all for conservation if something is truly being affected and in danger. I am all for management but cutting out collecting when tang populations have actually increased makes no sense. there is not a large enough breeding program yet and some fish will never be able to be bred because fo their spawning behavior. Allot of tangs spawn in massive groups and this is nearly impossible to duplicate.

https://www.reef2rainforest.com/201...rium-fishing-ban-draft-assessments-published/

They are going after the hobby and not things that do far more damage to the reefs in Hawaii.. Robert Winter aka Snorkel Bob started this whole thing and he runs a scuba outfit and scuba divers do damage to the reefs but he is not stopping his business.

 

[tangtime]

A study came out last week and said the hobby had no impact on fish populations in this area. I am all for conservation if something is truly being affected and in danger. I am all for management but cutting out collecting when tang populations have actually increased makes no sense. there is not a large enough breeding program yet and some fish will never be able to be bred because fo their spawning behavior. Allot of tangs spawn in massive groups and this is nearly impossible to duplicate.

https://www.reef2rainforest.com/201...rium-fishing-ban-draft-assessments-published/

They are going after the hobby and not things that do far more damage to the reefs in Hawaii.. Snorkel Bob started this whole thing and he runs a scuba outfit and scuba divers do damage to the reefs but he is not stopping his business.

The problem with these studies is that if you have a 100 if them on the same issue majority will have a different conclusion.

Can’t get tangs? Ok, another fish will takes its place. This is not an attack on the hobby as it isn’t big enough to wage some full on war against. Lol

Maybe, just maybe, coastal states have gotten tired of the destruction and habitat loss that attract populations and tourism to the coasts.
That’s why I moved to the coast, I catch and release when I fish for the most part but obey the FWC rules,I pick up crap left by the tourists on the beach, i support efforts to revitalize the Indian river lagoon here in Florida.

I’m tired of the blue/green algae blooms, closed beaches, and ultimately effects fish and coral.

If people did their part to help then these bans wouldn’t be considered but it’s $$$$ over anything.
There’s no balance, so bans are unfortunately the end result and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

[shred5]

The problem with these studies is that if you have a 100 if them on the same issue majority will have a different conclusion.

Can’t get tangs? Ok, another fish will takes its place. This is not an attack on the hobby as it isn’t big enough to wage some full on war against. Lol

Maybe, just maybe, coastal states have gotten tired of the destruction and habitat loss that attract populations and tourism to the coasts.
That’s why I moved to the coast, I catch and release when I fish for the most part but obey the FWC rules,I pick up crap left by the tourists on the beach, i support efforts to revitalize the Indian river lagoon here in Florida.

I’m tired of the blue/green algae blooms, closed beaches, and ultimately effects fish and coral.

If people did their part to help then these bans wouldn’t be considered but it’s $$$$ over anything.
There’s no balance, so bans are unfortunately the end result and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

You obviously have not been following any this. I am all for management but this is a all out attack on the hobby. If you feel that strongly why are you even in the hobby to begin with. This is more than just tangs it is a big percentage of our fish come from there because of local. I do not look at the hobby the same way. I have been in it along time and I look at it as advancing the understanding of fish and coral. More has been learned because of the hobby about fish breeding and coral propagation not by science but because of the hobby. It also raises awareness so people know what they need to protect. those things listed have little to do with the collection of fish.
do you recycle your waist? do you drive a car? get my point. This hobby has done allot for the awareness of the ocean and allot of people like me do donate to organisations that protect the reef. I also know that Wisconsin reef society has in the past. Do i think we need to protect our ocean ? More than ever but this is not the way.

there has been multiple studies and all have the same conclusion and some are by agencies that would normally say the opposite.

do some research on Snorkel Bob once.

I do understand what you are saying about studies. In Australia there is a controversy going on and I think it is about a canal going in for shipping but I cannot remember for sure. I read is a couple months ago and can not find it. Politicians say nothing is wrong with the reef because they want the canal and environmentalist say the reef is devastated. The right answer is usually somewhere in the middle. But this is not the case here.

 

[Brew12]

The problem with these studies is that if you have a 100 if them on the same issue majority will have a different conclusion.

Can’t get tangs? Ok, another fish will takes its place. This is not an attack on the hobby as it isn’t big enough to wage some full on war against. Lol

Maybe, just maybe, coastal states have gotten tired of the destruction and habitat loss that attract populations and tourism to the coasts.
That’s why I moved to the coast, I catch and release when I fish for the most part but obey the FWC rules,I pick up crap left by the tourists on the beach, i support efforts to revitalize the Indian river lagoon here in Florida.

I’m tired of the blue/green algae blooms, closed beaches, and ultimately effects fish and coral.

If people did their part to help then these bans wouldn’t be considered but it’s $$$$ over anything.
There’s no balance, so bans are unfortunately the end result and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

As a non commercial fisherman, this should worry you. This exact same decision could be used to invalidate all non commercial fishing licenses. There has not been a proper study that can prove the survival rates of released fish.

 

[tangtime]

Tin foil hat conspiracy of an all out attacking on salt water fish keepers. Lol

I have nothing more on that nonsense.

 

[tangtime]

As a non commercial fisherman, this should worry you. This exact same decision could be used to invalidate all non commercial fishing licenses. There has not been a proper study that can prove the survival rates of released fish.

That’s fine too. If I can’t fish it isn’t the end of the world. And there are already bans and limits in place on certain species.

 

[andrewkw]

Any suggestions Dave? I would think the actual collectors and wholesalers who are losing their livelihood would have the loudest voice vs the people who keep a yellow tang for 25 years. That being said if there is something I can do to help from snow covered Canada please post. This fish collection ban isn't even news here, where as things like being allowed elephant hunting trophies into the US are. For non US people this ban is probably even more unbelievable. I know that was my first reaction a few months back when the ban really started to pick up.

 

[Brew12]

That’s fine too. If I can’t fish it isn’t the end of the world. And there are already bans and limits in place on certain species.

I would have no problems with bans or limits if they are shown to be necessary. When the scientific information shows that bans and limits aren't necessary and the courts restrict it anyway is when I have a problem.

 

[shred5]

Any suggestions Dave? I would think the actual collectors and wholesalers who are losing their livelihood would have the loudest voice vs the people who keep a yellow tang for 25 years. That being said if there is something I can do to help from snow covered Canada please post. This fish collection ban isn't even news here, where as things like being allowed elephant hunting trophies into the US are. For non US people this ban is probably even more unbelievable. I know that was my first reaction a few months back when the ban really started to pick up.

Problem with collectors leading it is no money, I do not have a exact answer but it can start small even here on R2R just on the way we conduct ourselves.
We need someone who has the knowledge in the hobby to stand up and take on this challenge, they would also need backing. We had a organisation for a while that was supposed to be our voice but they are gone (MAC). Someone who has a degree in marine biology.. Seriously it would need to be someone like Julian Sprung, I am not saying it should be him just someone like him. I just do not get why places like live Aqauria is not concerned about this. I would like to know what Kevin has to say about this. It is going to take the manufacturers of equipment and coral/fish vendors help.

I think the hobby has got a bad a little bad rep about being greedy lately too and so many do not care about the animals. We need to watch what we post. There are no doubt people trying to stop us reading this forum some have even posted here in the past.

I have no issues with conservation and I do think some things should not be collected.

We have had areas banned before.. I still remember when we got rock from the keys and Hawaii. At the time we thought the hobby was over when banned but other areas had opened up, but the rock was much lower quality and much more expensive. This is not the end of the hobby, but it creates a major issue because it is a major source of fish for the hobby. It will cause cost to go up but worse it puts more pressure on other places like Fiji etc. We also know that Fiji started a ban this year and even against aquaculture rock. It was somewhat lifted for now. The real problem is it actually causes more deaths in fish because of distance these fish will have to travel to get here. It doesn't help just makes thing worse and more fish deaths. This needs to change, we need to see less deaths in shipping and handling of fish and corals all the way from the collector to the LFS.

 

[shred5]

By the way it should not be one Person like Julian it should be a board of people like Julian or Charles Delbeek. I would like to see people in the industry like Kevin Kohen. It would be even more helpful to have someone like @Dana Riddle since he was in Hawaii. People from the major aquariums around the world. We just need some voice.. After 30 years of being in the reef hobby and longer keeping saltwater and freshwater I care about the hobby and I also am a avid scuba diver and care about the ocean. I do not dive as much anymore but I wish I did.

There needs to be a balance. Cutting out collecting of fish does not save the oceans.

 

[JoshH]

think the hobby has got a bad a little bad rep about being greedy lately too and so many do not care about the animals. We need to watch what we post. There are no doubt people trying to stop us reading this forum some have even posted here in the past.

I welcome them to read this forum, every thread, every post. All they will find are countless accounts of 100's of reefers doing everything they can to treat there fishy friends with the up most care spending $150+ on meds and endless hours of treatment to save a $20 fish. And even more reefers willing to do just about anything to help those having trouble with there tanks or livestock, even down to saving a $10 frag. I think the biggest issue out there is that a lot of those just getting into the hobby don't have anyone to direct them to awesome forums such as R2R. Which is a real shame, even being from Canada some of my LFS employees have heard about R2R but never bothered to look into it or talk about forums with there customers. When in reality this is where they should be directing customers before a purchase is even made.

 

[jolt]

It may not be as bad as it sounds. I read the humane society press release, and it seems to me what they did was void existing licenses because there was insufficient scrutiny or oversight in the previous issuing process. I did not see any statement that they would never issue a license in the future. It could just be a first step towards better management of the fishery. Something like: collectors have to reapply for a license and do a better job of stating what and where they are collecting and how they will ensure sustainability.

 

[Brew12]

It may not be as bad as it sounds. I read the humane society press release, and it seems to me what they did was void existing licenses because there was insufficient scrutiny or oversight in the previous issuing process. I did not see any statement that they would never issue a license in the future. It could just be a first step towards better management of the fishery. Something like: collectors have to reapply for a license and do a better job of stating what and where they are collecting and how they will ensure sustainability.

Correct. However, my understanding is that a study could take 5 years to complete.