PIJAC Alert: Hawaii SB2003 to End Aquarium Fishery

shred5 · Apr 20, 2018

Dana Riddle said:
The West Hawaii Fishery Council forwarded this Environmental Assessment to me last night. In essence, the West Hawaii aquarium fishery is sustainable.
http://oeqc2.doh.hawaii.gov/EA_EIS_...Hawaii-Island-Commercial-Aquarium-Permits.pdf

Thanks, allot of reading.. I will read it this weekend.

shred5 · Apr 20, 2018

eatbreakfast had a good catch his post in another thread:

Not surprisingly Renee Umberger is one of the media contacts..m

I totally missed this.

More proof this is a vendetta against the hobby and means it will be hard to reverse this.

ZoaCollector · Apr 20, 2018

Currently the Environmental Assessment was completed and found most species to be collected within 1-2% of ea species.

The maximum to sustainability is 25% for any species so our industry is well under the detriment of over-collection.

Our DLNR has opened commentary to the public and needs your testimony to save this industry.

Comments are due/closed May 8th so get on it !

Here are the email addresses to send to:

David Sakoda / DLNR
[email protected]

Jim Lynch / Attorney
[email protected]

Here are links to EA DATA:
http://oeqc2.doh.hawaii.gov/EA_EIS_Library/2018-04-08-OA-DEA-Oahu-Commercial-Aquarium-Permits.pdf

http://oeqc2.doh.hawaii.gov/EA_EIS_...Hawaii-Island-Commercial-Aquarium-Permits.pdf

http://dlnr.hawaii.gov/dar/announcements/update-of-supreme-court-ruling-regarding-aquarium-fishing/

saltyhog · Apr 20, 2018

Scooter90254 said:
I have a few thoughts.

1. The HSUS is generally full of bologna. They claim victory all the time to increase funding.

4. We need balance. The answer is somewhere between a complete ban and practices that actually hurt the reefs.

There is little doubt about #1 being true!

What is maddening about #4 is that there is abundant proof that the aquarium collection is not hurting the reefs in Hawaii right now!

shred5 · Apr 20, 2018

https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2018/04/20/hawaii-bans-amateur-collection-of-live-marine-fishes/

tangtime · Apr 20, 2018

shred5 said:
https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2018/04/20/hawaii-bans-amateur-collection-of-live-marine-fishes/

Sorry but there is so much bologna and bias in that article it’s laughable.

Brew12 · Apr 21, 2018

It seems like the answer to this is to allow aquarium collectors to take fish without a permit.

shred5 · Apr 24, 2018

@Dana Riddle You heard of anything new?. It is funny it is like this got pushed trough without anyone knowing. reefbuilders did report on it, none of the blog sites even the emails from reef2reef never even mentioned this thread disappointing.

I hear Walt got shut down again too from a importer, I was going to send him a message because he has been very quiet lately..

Dana Riddle · Apr 24, 2018

shred5 said:
@Dana Riddle You heard of anything new?. It is funny it is like this got pushed trough without anyone knowing. reefbuilders did report on it, none of the blog sites even the emails from reef2reef never even mentioned this thread disappointing.

I hear Walt got shut down again too from a importer, I was going to send him a message because he has been very quiet lately..

I have not heard anything new. I'm sure Umberger, Snorkel Bob and their ilk are working overtime to shut down the fishery. I saw public opinion get whipped up so many times while in Hawaii, such as the Super Ferry (sued until they gave up), public protests against carbon dioxide experiments in the ocean (CO2 will explode - huh?), GMO algae to produce life-saving drugs, fear that the Hualalai development would kill the feral donkeys (bumper stickers reading "Save Our *****"), etc. I actually heard the head of the Hawaii County Sierra Club say adding calcium to seawater was dangerous, and his minions applauded wildly. It got so tiresome.

lion king · Apr 24, 2018

This is a good first step, after witnessing the disgusting way in which the ocean life is collected and treated by industry; I'd be OK with shutting the whole thing down. The greed is so insatiable, there are no ethics, the amount of death and disease so beyond acceptability; something has to be done. Maybe when yellow tangs are $100 each, they won't be disposable any more. Maybe people won't have the "just get another one" attitude, when it starts to hurt in the wallet. Like most other things, you can't allow the industry to regulate themselves.

shred5 · Apr 24, 2018

lion king said:
This is a good first step, after witnessing the disgusting way in which the ocean life is collected and treated by industry; I'd be OK with shutting the whole thing down. The greed is so insatiable, there are no ethics, the amount of death and disease so beyond acceptability; something has to be done. Maybe when yellow tangs are $100 each, they won't be disposable any more. Maybe people won't have the "just get another one" attitude, when it starts to hurt in the wallet. Like most other things, you can't allow the industry to regulate themselves.

Do you have all tank raised fish? Makes no sense to me if someone feels that way and have wild fish in their tank. If people have wild fish and are in the hobby why if you feel that strongly?

I agree we need to find a better way but this could really cripple the hobby and since it has not hurt fish populations instead they have climbed.
Yellow tangs will be way more than 100.00 too and this will not just effect just yellow tangs it will push prices of all tangs way up and then people will change to other fish pushing those up. Plus this is allot of the angels, wrasses, etc in the hobby being stopped. I just do not think people realise the amount of fish that come from this area.

lion king · Apr 24, 2018

shred5 said:
Do you have all tank raised fish? Makes no sense to me if someone feels that way and have wild fish in their tank. If people have wild fish and are in the hobby why if you feel that strongly?

I agree we need to find a better way but this could really cripple the hobby and since it has not hurt fish populations instead they have climbed.
Yellow tangs will be way more than 100.00 too and this will not just effect just yellow tangs it will push prices of all tangs way up and then people will change to other fish pushing those up. Plus this is allot of the angels, wrasses, etc in the hobby being stopped. I just do not think people realise the amount of fish that come from this area.

I started out naive, 30 years ago I was lucky enough to end up with alot of people in the industry that had integrity. I rebooted my hobby several years ago and it took me some time; to see what is happening now. So I have 2 choices, shut down all my tanks and hope the life survives somehow. Or honor my commitment and take care of the ones I have, while trying to figure out- what next.

For me it would be very limited collection; some species not at all, as a quick example: what's the point of all the undulated triggers. Collectors, distributors, and lfs would have to track losses; and there would be a strict standard. The cost would then be prohibitive enough to stop the killers out there, because things wouldn't be a dime a dozen anymore. The hobbyist would have to really commit, rather than tangs, triggers, and angels in 40 breeders; they would think twice about just flushing a fish down the toilet.

shred5 · Apr 24, 2018

lion king said:
I started out naive, 30 years ago I was lucky enough to end up with alot of people in the industry that had integrity. I rebooted my hobby several years ago and it took me some time; to see what is happening now. So I have 2 choices, shut down all my tanks and hope the life survives somehow. Or honor my commitment and take care of the ones I have, while trying to figure out- what next.

For me it would be very limited collection; some species not at all, as a quick example: what's the point of all the undulated triggers. Collectors, distributors, and lfs would have to track losses; and there would be a strict standard. The cost would then be prohibitive enough to stop the killers out there, because things wouldn't be a dime a dozen anymore. The hobbyist would have to really commit, rather than tangs, triggers, and angels in 40 breeders; they would think twice about just flushing a fish down the toilet.

I have been the hobby more than 30 years so I do know what you are saying... I am all for conservation if need be. If something is in danger or in low supply it should not be collected. I think things should be monitored also. But just outright banning something for no reason is wrong. Sea Sheppard just wants to see the hobby shut down it is personal.

I think we need to improve conditions for these fish from the collector all the way to the lfs, i have been saying that for years. I think there are allot of people in the hobby for the wrong reasons too... But yellow tang populations have risen in Hawaii see video above and the reports so this is ridiculous... They re not indangered and populations are rising. Not only that things are improving in the handling of fish and coral. More and more breeding and aquaculture is happening.

Shut down the hobby it all ends. Lot of people will not learn about the sea and what there is to protect. No new people will not be coming into the hobby to know what to protect.

The hobby is headed in the right direction. I mean tell me how many coral farms there were or breeders of saltwater fish there were 20 years ago? How much mariculture or aquaculture was there?

How many new species of fish are now being bred vs 20 years ago? all because of the hobby.. These are discoveries that would never have been done.

Making the reefs of value gives people a reason to protect them. No one wants their lively hood destroyed.

shred5 · Apr 24, 2018

lion king said:
I started out naive, 30 years ago I was lucky enough to end up with alot of people in the industry that had integrity. I rebooted my hobby several years ago and it took me some time; to see what is happening now. So I have 2 choices, shut down all my tanks and hope the life survives somehow. Or honor my commitment and take care of the ones I have, while trying to figure out- what next.

For me it would be very limited collection; some species not at all, as a quick example: what's the point of all the undulated triggers. Collectors, distributors, and lfs would have to track losses; and there would be a strict standard. The cost would then be prohibitive enough to stop the killers out there, because things wouldn't be a dime a dozen anymore. The hobbyist would have to really commit, rather than tangs, triggers, and angels in 40 breeders; they would think twice about just flushing a fish down the toilet.

I want to add this too.. this ban just means more fish will die because now it will increase pressure on areas farther away which means more fish will die in shipping.

Scooter90254 · Apr 24, 2018

The lack of very basic marine biology in these threads and in the emotional argument of people is embarrassing.

Let’s talk about the yellow tang.

There is clearly a point in which yellow tangs can be harvested with zero impact on the wild population. The limiting factor for reef fish is carrying capacity not recruitment. It’s as simple is that

Did you know that that 1 single female will have over a million eggs? Yea a million. Why isn’t the ocean over run with yellow tangs? Because 50,000 are harvested a year for aquariums? Does that make sense or is something else the limiting factor?

Where I do agree is I believe it’s the hobby responsibility to make sure harvesting is done ethically. There are or were some bad apples in the collection industry but there are also many great ethical collectors.