hello to anybody reading this, I recently bought a Nuvo fusion 20 gallon tank and wanted to try out this amazing hobby. I know that beginners are recommended to get at least a 50 gallon tank, but I have no room in my small apartment. Anyways, it’s been about two weeks since I’ve added my sand and rock and Dr Tim’s one and only bacteria. Right now I have a crazy high nitrite spike (5ppm) same goes with my nitrates (above 80ppm), but my ammonia is almost as if its below 0ppm because it’s not even the yellow color it’s like a faded bland white. But my question is, do I need to keep adding ammonia to my tank while I’m in this step of my cycle? Also should I do a water change because my nitrites and nitrates are so high? Please any information/tips would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
Please help! New to cycling a tank
- Thread starter Tryndle
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Radman73
Valuable Member
Personally, I'd stop dosing ammonia for now. Wait until you get zero nitrite and then dose again. In 24 hours, check for ammonia and nitrite. If both are 0, do your water change and you are done, technically speaking, with the cycle. If ammonia or nitrite or still present in any quantity, I'd suggest either being patient and waiting it out while periodically dosing and testing, or buy another bacteria in a bottle product and see if it processes the ammonia quicker. Make sure you aren't overdosing ammonia.
Oh, and welcome to Reef2Reef!
nautical_nathaniel
Indecision may or may not be my problem.
First off, welcome to R2R!
As others have said, hold off on the ammonia and keep checking parameters until you get zero nitrites consistently, nitrates should begin to lower after you reach that point.
You may want to get a different ammonia test kit or at least a new bottle/kit of the one you have now. I have never heard of the results turning white before unless you shook the heck out of it..
As others have said, hold off on the ammonia and keep checking parameters until you get zero nitrites consistently, nitrates should begin to lower after you reach that point.
You may want to get a different ammonia test kit or at least a new bottle/kit of the one you have now. I have never heard of the results turning white before unless you shook the heck out of it..
I forgot to mention that I am doing a fishless cycle by using pure ammonia. All I have in my tank currently is live sand and dry rock. And it’s weird because I added 2ppm of ammonia to my tank yesterday and today there’s no sign of ammonia in my tank just lots of nitrites and nitrates
Eddie7144
Well-Known Member
I remember when I cycled my first tank, all I did was fill it with rocks and water. I added 2 bottles of cycle and just Let the filter run. Tested water like once a week. Took 3 weeks to cycle a 110 tank. My advice is to just let it run it will cycle on its own.
nautical_nathaniel
Indecision may or may not be my problem.
That's how the cycle works, it breaks down ammonia and produces nitrite and then nitrate, all normal unless you suddenly get a huge ammonia spike later on.
nautical_nathaniel
Indecision may or may not be my problem.
I would try salifert or red sea kits, API can be incorrect or give false positives sometimes.
Tryndle
If you add saltwater to that mix, and any form of bottle bac and any amnt of ammonia and wait 30 days, then do a full water change, it'll be base cycled. It can't not base cycle, 30 days is a biological rule for deposition of microbes in wet media, that's why every cycling chart going back to the 1980's shows that or a similar timeline with days of 30.
You can do it without testing for a single parameter if you like, or, you can chase numbers all day on api either way, same outcome.
If you want to cycle your tank without testing, then simply add 2 ppm ammonia appox to the system and add bottle bac (you have done that part already)
wait two weeks while it all mixes and sits in the tank.
at the end of two weeks, repeat it, wait two more weeks for a total of 4, change all water, refill, add some snails and a few starter corals. don't add fish until they're quarantined and the tank has passed a fallow period. this is detailed as a sticky in the fish forum.
No matter what any test kit reads during the interim, this cycle cannot be stopped using the no test method above.
testless cycling is so 2017.
its been invented for a reason/ in your case, you are concerning over numbers that reflect suspension cycling vs substrate cycling and that's why you don't need to test anything right now. at 30 days and after any form of ammonia + bottle bac, suspension cycling has transitioned into substrate cycling (where the bac are on surfaces, unremovable, vs dosed to the water in suspension and giving temporary readings)
even if you had no ammonia kit to estimate the 2 ppm, online charts already show how much to add per gallon of water, we literally don't need to test to cycle.
when a system is producing oxidation numbers in suspension cycling, those don't count, since a simple water change can stop the whole process.
after enough time that biofilms have laid down, 30 days underwater or even in a moist setting, no amnt of water change can undo the cycle, and we already know what those readings will be because microbiology was established in other industries regardless of what API says....and you can tell from google, what they say ranges wildly.
no test cycling also stops the insane amount of "stuck cycles" which are really just .25 api misreads.
If you add saltwater to that mix, and any form of bottle bac and any amnt of ammonia and wait 30 days, then do a full water change, it'll be base cycled. It can't not base cycle, 30 days is a biological rule for deposition of microbes in wet media, that's why every cycling chart going back to the 1980's shows that or a similar timeline with days of 30.
You can do it without testing for a single parameter if you like, or, you can chase numbers all day on api either way, same outcome.
If you want to cycle your tank without testing, then simply add 2 ppm ammonia appox to the system and add bottle bac (you have done that part already)
wait two weeks while it all mixes and sits in the tank.
at the end of two weeks, repeat it, wait two more weeks for a total of 4, change all water, refill, add some snails and a few starter corals. don't add fish until they're quarantined and the tank has passed a fallow period. this is detailed as a sticky in the fish forum.
No matter what any test kit reads during the interim, this cycle cannot be stopped using the no test method above.
testless cycling is so 2017.
its been invented for a reason/ in your case, you are concerning over numbers that reflect suspension cycling vs substrate cycling and that's why you don't need to test anything right now. at 30 days and after any form of ammonia + bottle bac, suspension cycling has transitioned into substrate cycling (where the bac are on surfaces, unremovable, vs dosed to the water in suspension and giving temporary readings)
even if you had no ammonia kit to estimate the 2 ppm, online charts already show how much to add per gallon of water, we literally don't need to test to cycle.
when a system is producing oxidation numbers in suspension cycling, those don't count, since a simple water change can stop the whole process.
after enough time that biofilms have laid down, 30 days underwater or even in a moist setting, no amnt of water change can undo the cycle, and we already know what those readings will be because microbiology was established in other industries regardless of what API says....and you can tell from google, what they say ranges wildly.
no test cycling also stops the insane amount of "stuck cycles" which are really just .25 api misreads.
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It’s ok to add coral right away? I was concerned on getting soft corals because i figured if it was too early it would kill the coral. But what you’re saying is that I should add bacteria right now and then wait two weeks?
When cycling a new tank you will go through 3 main stages with water parameters. They are ammonia spike, nitrite spike, and finally the nitrate spike. Typically you will see the ammonia spike at first, the aerobic bacteria that feed on ammonia will bloom and start converting ammonia to nitrite. This is where you see the ammonia levels fall off but then see nitrite levels start to climb. At this point you no longer need to dose ammonia, but you will want to start ghost feeding the tank to keep the ammonia feeding bacteria alive. Usually a small pinch of flake or pellet food daily like you would be feeding livestock is all you need. Now that you have high nitrites just sit back and wait. it will take about a week or two and the bacteria that feed on nitrites will bloom and consume this converting it to nitrates. You don't want to do a water change yet as you want the cycle to continue normally. You should see the nitrite level fall off drastically to 2-4ppm after another week. Once this happens and as long as the ammonia levels are still at 0 you are ready for your fist big water change. 20-30% is the minimum here. Give it another week and you can start adding the cleanup crew like snails and hermits. Cause you are now ready to deal with stage 4 and 5 of the tank cycle, diatoms, hair algae and cyano outbreaks. These are normal and we all go through it. The diatoms will bloom and cover everything with a brown algae like coating but will die off after a week or so. Then comes the hair and cyano. Cyano is the red mat looking stuff stat will also cover everything. Most inverts will not touch it, so you have a few choices to get rid of it. You can do a 3-4 day total blackout of the tank followed by a 50% water change every 2-3 days after for at least a week, or treat with Chemi-Clean and follow its instructions. Once you are at the diatom/cyano stages and the ammonia and nitrite levels remain at 0 your tank is ready for your first fish. Go slow and don't add too much too quickly. You don't want to overpower the bacterial colonies in the tank with a sudden spike in the bio load.
it was:
rocks and sand and water + 2ppm estimated ammonia + bottle bac at the start, run for two weeks.
in two weeks, repeat, run two more
at one month, do a full water change, then add the soft corals now is too soon. The problem with cycling the normal way is you are using kits that are more likely to misread than any other kit ever produced for the aquarium industry. we're curbing a headache and we have accounted for all the required biology in the system.
rocks and sand and water + 2ppm estimated ammonia + bottle bac at the start, run for two weeks.
in two weeks, repeat, run two more
at one month, do a full water change, then add the soft corals now is too soon. The problem with cycling the normal way is you are using kits that are more likely to misread than any other kit ever produced for the aquarium industry. we're curbing a headache and we have accounted for all the required biology in the system.
Adding coral takes time. You want to wait at least a month after adding fish before you start with some hardy leathers or zoas. Start with one and watch it for a few weeks then add another etc. LPS can follow after a couple 2-3 months. SPS only if you have the lighting and the tank is established. Usually at 8 months to a year.
Did you wait for nitrite to also zero out?
You have way too high of nitrite. With bottled bacteria, once you hit ~5 ppm nitrite, your cycle actually slows greatly. Dr. Tim explains it under his troubleshooting section that the bacteria actually start to become inhibited and stop consuming nitrite once you approach these numbers.
Tips and Troubleshooting:
- IMPORTANT – Do not let the ammonia OR nitrite concentration get above 5 ppm.
I would recommend atleast a 20% water change to bring your nitrites under 5 ppm. Usually when I have ammonia disappear in 24 hours after the second or third dosage of 2 ppm ammonia, nitrites should zero out within the same time frame but in your case, your nitrites are building up. You can try to wait out your cycle but it can take a long time, very very long time.
Once you do a water change and bring nitrites under 5 ppm, completely let nitrites zero out. Dose 2 ppm of ammonia again. If your tank can process 2 ppm ammonia and nitrite to 0 ppm in 24 hours, your tank is cycled.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/
Tryndle welcome to reefing
its info overload and you'll soon become a contributor to that overload heh
I was giving a short breakdown of those 7 pages. we open with reviling the nitrite test kit, do disregard it.
not one biological process can go wrong with testless cycling. even the starting amnt of ammonia has a known correlation to nitrite, which is why we didn't have to test for it. And if you did, certainly don't use API. I didn't want you to have to buy new kits, testless cycling is way cheap 2
I think we included somewhere between 4 and 9 examples of how nitrite testing gave someone 5 months of headaches. might as well test for argon, nitrite data not required.
Tryndle welcome to reefing
its info overload and you'll soon become a contributor to that overload hehI was giving a short breakdown of those 7 pages. we open with reviling the nitrite test kit, do disregard it.
not one biological process can go wrong with testless cycling. even the starting amnt of ammonia has a known correlation to nitrite, which is why we didn't have to test for it. And if you did, certainly don't use API. I didn't want you to have to buy new kits, testless cycling is way cheap 2
I think we included somewhere between 4 and 9 examples of how nitrite testing gave someone 5 months of headaches. might as well test for argon, nitrite data not required.
Ok thank you for the heads up, I also have another question. I did buy another of dr Tim’s bacteria but I was dumb and bought the freshwater bottle and put two capfuls of it in to my tank. Would that affect my cycle?
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