PLEASE STOP USING TTM-IT'S BARBARIC

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
18,075
Reaction score
14,802
Location
tejas
show me a link to public tanks being assembled and remaining disease free using ideal methods.

whatever that process might be, what's the ideal method for disease control in fish link us an option to have as sub for this one above. it cannot be a link to Paul's thread or anyone's thread they own

it has to be a link where public reefs/offers from the average joe and jane are logged for outcome patterning.


the actual fish disease forum provides this, and TTM exists still due to the statistics it generates in patterned works.

that doesn't mean all instances go right

it means the practice didn't fade out because nobody's developed another way that is linkable


awaiting links for alternate methods of control

this was a great subject to bump, four years onward the hobby is still in disagreement (only the fish disease forum has had four years now to evolve practices...what's being used in 2021 per last ten pages on this forum)

when statistical significance has been reached Ill expect zoos/public aquariums to comply and new stickies will be added for reference up top.
 

Dolphins18

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2020
Messages
473
Reaction score
572
Location
Cary, NC
lol vitamins and water quality aren't going to get rid of ich !!
Clearly ich is quite misunderstood. I've had ich in each and every one of my tanks over the last 20 years. The last time it killed a fish was when I used one of these methods to try and fix it. If the fish is healthy & in the right environment their immune system should be able to fight it off, vitamins and proper feeding will simply help the fish fight ich.
Laugh all you want while your fish get tortured using the above methods. Everyone has their own way of doing things.
 

TerraFerma

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
723
Reaction score
529
TTM was hatched to deal with fish than cannot take effective levels of copper. Everything else good old copper is just fine. Fish need to be in decent shape undergo a full proper dose copper treatment. You can't expect to dump some dusty on the bottom of the tank breathing heavy tang into copper and expect it to live long. Which is why copper is better done before ich/ood pops up.
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
10,583
Reaction score
11,482
There are problems with every method. The 'natural method' - i.e. good feeding, low stress, etc. works for some - not everyone. I do not believe there is a zoo or public aquarium in the world that does not use some form of quarantine (whether mere observation, observation and treatment if disease, prophylactic treatment, etc). IMHO the reason 'some' people succeed with 'ich surviving in their tanks' relates not to magic food or vitamins, but - low stocking density, healthy fish to begin with, or fish that are already immune. Try taking some CI and dropping it into a clownfish breeding facility - where they have been feeding well - and have excellent water quality. I do not think it would be pretty
 
BRS

AutumnReefs

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 30, 2021
Messages
106
Reaction score
73
Location
US
Just sit them in the same tank with copper power. No need to give frequeny heart attacks to the fish, its guarenteed to work, and I would say 99% of fish in this hobby are fine with it (that includes dragonets who seem to not have issues in it or at least all of the ones I have dealt with). TTM just seems like a whole lot of unnecessary work.
 
Last edited:

Plzpizza

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 12, 2020
Messages
25
Reaction score
24
I have to disagree with you there. TTM is the goto way I think to QT a fish. I have used TTM on a whole bunch of fish and they have all made it and were eating.

The only time I had dead fish was because the fish I bought wasn’t doing so good to being with it wasn’t gonna make it regardless.

Ammonia shouldn’t be a problem unless you are feeding too much. 72 hours your fish will be in a nice clean tank again
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
18,075
Reaction score
14,802
Location
tejas
You know what I love about the fish disease forum

its independent presentation of data patterns

I don't keep fish nor study fish disease, but it's easy to spot trending right here in the hobby via patterns and due to the fact literally not another forum or thread exists for mass fish disease cure using alternate means.



we can now see that aquarium cycling was not the hoorah everyone thought it to be the last several years. if you put water in a reef tank without any help, we now know when that alone will cycle much less if you add fourteen dollar bottle of concentrated and refrigerated cycling bac plus direct feed for them.


aquarium cycling is a non issue, I bet nobody here can even find one single thread on the internet of a failed bottle bac cycle (prepare ye for a flood of api links lol)

meaning dead fish....everyone's fish live long enough to get sick in new tank cycles. Cycling is easy, fish disease is where it's at, and who ya gonna call?

we now just link the fish disease forum in general to new cyclers and let them read
 

Tamberav

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
3,100
Reaction score
4,513
Location
Wauwatosa, WI
I do hybrid TTM on my fish and most are listed as expert only on Live Aquaria. They do really well with it. Only out of the water for a second and eating almost immediately after.

Tomorrow is day 13 of hybrid TTM and will be their last transfer. :D

They are not even hiding. I walk up and they are out saying show me the foood!

D0736F32-AA44-4F7E-B8D6-C2043E81C7D0.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Zoanthids

arking_mark

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
759
Location
Potomac
I'm going to have to disagree with the OP.

In my experience, Copper and Meds have been very harsh to many of my fish. In fact, I won't QT my own fish anymore due to this lack of success. I now only buy QT'd fish from professionals who can do it better than I.

On the other hand, I do TTM for expert or Copper sensitive fish. I use a two 5gal tank with identical equipment and setup. These tanks and TTM just function as observation tanks.

Also, there is no way I will add unquarentied fish to my tank. In over 20 years of reefing, I've had 3 outbreaks that wiped the majority of fish from my tank...all due to adding a fish that brought in some disease.
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
10,583
Reaction score
11,482
I'm going to have to disagree with the OP.

In my experience, Copper and Meds have been very harsh to many of my fish. In fact, I won't QT my own fish anymore due to this lack of success. I now only buy QT'd fish from professionals who can do it better than I.

On the other hand, I do TTM for expert or Copper sensitive fish. I use a two 5gal tank with identical equipment and setup. These tanks and TTM just function as observation tanks.

Also, there is no way I will add unquarentied fish to my tank. In over 20 years of reefing, I've had 3 outbreaks that wiped the majority of fish from my tank...all due to adding a fish that brought in some disease.
I am curious - what do you do about velvet? and the other diseases that are not affected by TTM? Not an argument - just your philosophy
 

arking_mark

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
759
Location
Potomac
I am curious - what do you do about velvet? and the other diseases that are not affected by TTM? Not an argument - just your philosophy
So TTM can be used for velvet. If I observe or suspect other issues I will treat them with meds in TTM. I may also treat prophylactically with Prazipro and/or General Cure. Generally speaking, if they have velvet...or something more severe, it will show up during TTM which will prevent it from getting in the display tank. That is the main benefit of TTM or even an observation tank.
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
10,583
Reaction score
11,482
So TTM can be used for velvet. If I observe or suspect other issues I will treat them with meds in TTM. I may also treat prophylactically with Prazipro and/or General Cure. Generally speaking, if they have velvet...or something more severe, it will show up during TTM which will prevent it from getting in the display tank. That is the main benefit of TTM or even an observation tank.
Can you give a protocol for using TTM for velvet? since the life cycle is so different from Cryptocaryon? And since the time for TTM needs to be far shortened - (From what I've read) - for velvet?
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
10,583
Reaction score
11,482
So TTM can be used for velvet. If I observe or suspect other issues I will treat them with meds in TTM. I may also treat prophylactically with Prazipro and/or General Cure. Generally speaking, if they have velvet...or something more severe, it will show up during TTM which will prevent it from getting in the display tank. That is the main benefit of TTM or even an observation tank.
But - yes - I agree completely - it will show up and allow you to use copper. But - in all honesty - so would an observation QT - without the every couple day water changes and tank changes - or am I 'all wet'?
 
BRS

arking_mark

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
759
Location
Potomac
But - yes - I agree completely - it will show up and allow you to use copper. But - in all honesty - so would an observation QT - without the every couple day water changes and tank changes - or am I 'all wet'?
Again, the only fish I TTM are those that I can't get from a professional that sells QT'd fish and are generally sensitive to copper and meds. Right now, I'm running TTM on Orange Spotted Filefish which has to be adapted to eating prepared foods. They typically will not survive QT with copper and Meds and most professional QT places won't even attempt to get and sell these fish. Truly expert only. Since I maintain identical tanks for TTM, the only stress on the fish is transfer which is very minimal as the tank get mostly drained and they are caught and moved in less than 10 seconds.
 

arking_mark

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
1,125
Reaction score
759
Location
Potomac

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
10,583
Reaction score
11,482
Again, the only fish I TTM are those that I can't get from a professional that sells QT'd fish and are generally sensitive to copper and meds. Right now, I'm running TTM on Orange Spotted Filefish which has to be adapted to eating prepared foods. They typically will not survive QT with copper and Meds and most professional QT places won't even attempt to get and sell these fish. Truly expert only. Since I maintain identical tanks for TTM, the only stress on the fish is transfer which is very minimal as the tank get mostly drained and they are caught and moved in less than 10 seconds.
thanks - and this makes sense - but what about velvet and other diseases that arent helped by TTM?
 

Tamberav

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
3,100
Reaction score
4,513
Location
Wauwatosa, WI
I am curious - what do you do about velvet? and the other diseases that are not affected by TTM? Not an argument - just your philosophy

You can actually TTM for velvet... you just transfer every 36 hours on day 1-7.

The new experimental method is two peroxide baths at 150ppm 6 days apart but it has been working well. The Peroxide bath is for things like velvet, brook, early uronema, etc.
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
10,583
Reaction score
11,482
You can actually TTM for velvet... you just transfer every 36 hours on day 1-7.

The new experimental method is two peroxide baths at 150ppm 6 days apart but it has been working well. The Peroxide bath is for things like velvet, brook, early uronema, etc.
So then it would make sense that 'TTM' should be re-written to include these things - or do you only do this once you see a problem. Example I buy 5 fish. on day 3 of TTM, one of them developed what looks like velvet what do you do.
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

If Reefing was a school what letter grade do you think you would be making?

  • A

    Votes: 49 12.0%
  • B

    Votes: 178 43.4%
  • C

    Votes: 134 32.7%
  • D

    Votes: 31 7.6%
  • F

    Votes: 17 4.1%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 1 0.2%
AFX
Top