PO4 and NO3 imbalance

[Jonowilliams]

Hi as per title I think I've an imbalance of the two as my PO4 measures 0.04 using the red sea kit and NO3 50 using red sea and salifert test kits.

I've been trying to fight what I think is maybe a green cyanobacteria for what seems like an eternity.

I've tried nopox and biopearls with no results.

After a bit of reading I'm thinking it's maybe because my levels are so far apart.

What I'm thinking now is start the pearls again but remove the po4 media and maybe dose 0.1ppm of PO4 a day to my tank to get them to work.

Would this be the correct way of doing it?

Thanks

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I would personally not use biopellets or GFO right now. I would focus on cleaning your sand bed and keeping up on husbandry.

It's worth noting that I don't think there's any good evidence that suggests that a balance of nitrate to phosphate must be maintained in reef aquaria. You need some of both, but as long as both are present in sufficient quantities (which they are in your system), there's no reason to suspect that an "imbalance" is causing your algae to grow.

 

[Waters]

I would increase your water change frequency and amounts until you get the nitrates down.....your phosphates are already sitting at a good level.

 

[Jonowilliams]

I would personally not use biopellets or GFO right now. I would focus on cleaning your sand bed and keeping up on husbandry.

It's worth noting that I don't think there's any good evidence that suggests that a balance of nitrate to phosphate must be maintained in reef aquaria. You need some of both, but as long as both are present in sufficient quantities (which they are in your system), there's no reason to suspect that an "imbalance" is causing your algae to grow.

So if it's not down to my nutrients what could be the cause of the algae on the sand bed?

I'm guessing it's cyano as I've not 100% identified it, I do intend to try get some under the microscope.

It also grows on a few pieces of rock work and has smothered corals.

I've only lost an acan though, but overall coral growth doesn't exist anymore. I used to get very very good growth.

I've had zero snail deaths, I've conchs and nass snails that are still alive and going over the sand.

 

[Jonowilliams]

I would increase your water change frequency and amounts until you get the nitrates down.....your phosphates are already sitting at a good level.

I might hook up an auto water changer and do large amounts over a week

 

[Jonowilliams]

I forgot to mention too I have a large refugium with caulerpa and chaeto that grows extremely well under an 125w horticulture CFL

 

[Gotareeftokeep]

Flow in this area of the tank low ?? I had red cyno a while back in a few spots and all it took was a good clean of all my water flow pumps and power heads and some new direction of their flow and inside two weeks all gone

 

[rob safron]

Been reefing a long time and had all kinds of algae, still not an expert but that does not look like cyno to me. I also currently have higher nitrates with very low phosphates. I do dose Vinegar and now getting red cyno. Cyno could be cause by a lot of things. Water changes are always good but certainly will not lower that nitrate down very fast at all. Is your skimmer working well? Is this a newer tank? Every tank is different but I have tried adding extra power heads to fight cyno over the years and it never helped. Probably just need to get your nitrates down by any means. Wether an imbalance is causing the algae that nitrate is super high.

 

[Ash321]

Just use chemiclean job done 3 days max. Then maybe get a fuge going and u will be wanting to add nitrate then

 

[Gareth elliott]

Just use chemiclean job done 3 days max. Then maybe get a fuge going and u will be wanting to add nitrate then

Be careful with chemiclean. Your O2 levels will plummet. Keep skimmer running without the cup. Wavemakers moved near surface. Follow dosing instructions, if unsure go with less. Numerous posts of those losing fish with this product not knowing how extreme the O2 effect is.

 

[rob safron]

I have used chemiclean a lot per the instruction above. Problem is with your nitrates, it’s all bound to come back. Work on the nitrates and then I would use chemiclean. Love to hear other experienced algae experts on what this algae is for sure. Certainly not the red cyno I get.

 

[Potatohead]

Add some phosphate and go light with a carbon source at the same time, like Nopox. Try to get your levels around 20 and .05-.08, I imagine it will reduce significantly, because it worked for me.

 

[Ash321]

Be careful with chemiclean. Your O2 levels will plummet. Keep skimmer running without the cup. Wavemakers moved near surface. Follow dosing instructions, if unsure go with less. Numerous posts of those losing fish with this product not knowing how extreme the O2 effect is.

Lets be honest tho those people have inadequate flow to begin with it cleary states to leave the skimmer running cup less or add an airstone.

So as with any chemical use as directed and 99% of the time will be fine.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I agree that it is the nitrate phosphate imbalance that causes the cyanobacterial or algal growth. I recommend some kind of bio pellets because bio pellets to not deplete the remaining phosphate so much and create more stable conditions.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

There is still no evidence of imbalance being a “thing”

You (we all) are using a hobby grade test kit that is proven to have a large margin of error but allows us to get a decent ball park of nutrients in the tank.
Ya can’t balance numbers that at wrong.

I don’t get cyano, many don’t. Did I and a million others just get lucky and accidentally strike a balance that can’t really accurately be tested.
I don’t think so.
No.

Why don’t I get it when my Po4 was out of control.
Why don’t I get it when my nitrates have gotten out of control.

It’s because it doesn’t matter.

Clean the sand bed. Increase flow use bottled bacteria avoid Aminos and organic carbon sources and trendy coral food
The cyano is feeding on ammonia and nitrates and co2 coming off rotting poop and food.
More flow =lower co2 build up.
Aminos carbon is bacteria food
Increased nitrifying bacteria population compete with Cyano Esp in young tanks

 

[Hans-Werner]

Hi sff,

If PO4 out of control means high PO4 it is not the problem. The problem that causes cyanos is low phosphate in the water and still phosphate in sand and rocks and other materials (also algae and biofilms). The cyanobacteria make use of the PO4 leaching out from sand, rocks, algae etc.. The imbalance or surplus of nitrogen compounds prevents the rise of the phosphate concentration in the water.

So how does that create cyanobacterial growth? I think it is a matter of competition with corals. Corals incorporate a lot of iron and other trace elements. This leads to a competitive suppression of cyanobacterial growth. Low phosphate concentrations in the water inhibit coral growth while cyanobacteria (and also nuisance algae) have access to phosphates stored in substrates, algae etc.. With low phosphate concentrations in the water nuisance algae and cyanobacteria have a competitive advantage over corals.

This does not differ much from what you are saying, finally the measures he has to take are the same and maybe some others additionally like removing GFO.

 

[Stigigemla]

When my tanks begin to look like that I just change the media in the DI part of the osmosis. After two weeks they are normally gone. But I do the change earlier before it is that much. I believe that kind of algae needs silica.

 

[Dan_P]

Hi sff,

If PO4 out of control means high PO4 it is not the problem. The problem that causes cyanos is low phosphate in the water and still phosphate in sand and rocks and other materials (also algae and biofilms). The cyanobacteria make use of the PO4 leaching out from sand, rocks, algae etc.. The imbalance or surplus of nitrogen compounds prevents the rise of the phosphate concentration in the water.

So how does that create cyanobacterial growth? I think it is a matter of competition with corals. Corals incorporate a lot of iron and other trace elements. This leads to a competitive suppression of cyanobacterial growth. Low phosphate concentrations in the water inhibit coral growth while cyanobacteria (and also nuisance algae) have access to phosphates stored in substrates, algae etc.. With low phosphate concentrations in the water nuisance algae and cyanobacteria have a competitive advantage over corals.

This does not differ much from what you are saying, finally the measures he has to take are the same and maybe some others additionally like removing GFO.

The weak point in this explanation is that the same thing happens in fish only aquariums where competition with coral does not come into play.

The notion of competition for nutrients is sound but we need more information about other potential competitors.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So if it's not down to my nutrients what could be the cause of the algae on the sand bed?

I'm guessing it's cyano as I've not 100% identified it, I do intend to try get some under the microscope.

You have plenty of both N and P for algae growth, ev water column, and may have even more down in the sand. "Imbalance" is not contributing to it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There is still no evidence of imbalance being a “thing”

Agree.

Just too much of everything needed for algae growth, not imbalance.