POLL: Do skimmers remove nitrate and phosphate?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

True, but I tried to ask if it directly removed those inorganic nutrients. I could have worded it better.

Seems clear to me. A skimmer does not remove them. It may result in lower tank levels, but that is a different question. :)

 

[Reefering1]

True, but I tried to ask if it directly removed those inorganic nutrients. I could have worded it better.

You qualified it fine with your example of not removing existing nitrate/ po4, but preventing future nitrate/po4 production

 

[sixty_reefer]

Seems clear to me. A skimmer does not remove them. It may result in lower tank levels, but that is a different question. :)

How do we categorise the removal of inorganic phosphate by lanthanum chloride with the aid of a protein skimmer
Will it fall in the same category of organic carbon?

 

[Chad72]

You’re correct about that. If bacteria grow with carbon dosing, the N & P they used will be skimmed along with them.

My question was more about if skimmers can directly remove the nutrient in their inorganic form. I wanted to see where community stands.

I think it’s a relatively common misconception that skimmers can directly remove both.

Mechanical Filtration​

Mechanical filtration is often sort of skipped as a nitrate control method but shouldn't be. Mechanical filtration is your filter socks, filter pads, filter sponges, and protein skimmer. Anything that physically removes organic matter from the tank. Since this organic matter is the source of your nitrates, you can effectively remove the waste before it becomes a nitrate problem. Effective mechanical filtration will ultimately result in lower nitrate levels in your tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How do we categorise the removal of inorganic phosphate by lanthanum chloride with the aid of a protein skimmer
Will it fall in the same category of organic carbon?

Lanthanum phosphate particles also will not skim unless they get coated with organics, which they can. Just like coral snow using calcium carbonate.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Lanthanum phosphate particles also will not skim unless they get coated with organics, which they can. Just like coral snow using calcium carbonate.

Thank you for the clarification

 

[Miami Reef]

Lanthanum phosphate particles also will not skim unless they get coated with organics, which they can. Just like coral snow using calcium carbonate.

Wow. This is news to me.

For the people that dose lanthanum directly into their skimmer; is it reasonable to assume the organic binding process happens fast enough to be skimmed out, assuming the bound organic is non-polar and absorbs at the air water interface?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wow. This is news to me.

For the people that dose lanthanum directly into their skimmer; is it reasonable to assume the organic binding process happens fast enough to be skimmed out, assuming the bound organic is non-polar and absorbs at the air water interface?

I think it is likely that much can be removed this way, but I do not know how much. It only takes a single molecular layer on the lanthanum particles to change its properties. Organics can bind as fast as phosphate is precipitating, or thereabouts.

Ben Franklin showed in a famous experiment that a teaspoon of olive oil could spread out over half an acre on a pond to reach down to a monolayer of coverage and still impact the pond waves.

FWIW, almost no inorganic ionic solids are hydrophobic.

It’s also actually very hard to keep many inorganic surfaces clean of organics. Exposure to lab air will quickly result in binding of organic vapors.

 

[Miami Reef]

Thank you! This is so helpful. I can’t wait to spread this information around (by quoting, of course). Bookmarked!

 

[rishma]

Seems clear to me. A skimmer does not remove them. It may result in lower tank levels, but that is a different question. :)

Not strictly correct. Skimmers do remove them because they remove water and that water contains nitrate and phosphate. Yes, I know…just having fun.

Always fun to disagree with Randy…knowing you’ll get crushed because you are simply outmatched :)

 

[VintageReefer]

What do we need a poll for the answer is simple and has been known for years

No, skimmers do not remove any noticeable nitrate or phosphate.

An alternate phrase for the question:
Do skimmers help prevent nitrates and phosphates?
Yes

There is a difference even though the questions seem similar

 

[VintageReefer]

"Do skimmers remove nitrate and phosphate?"​

I meant the meaning behind the words lol.

It doesn't actually remove nitrates or phosphates. But it does remove particles that will eventually break down and become those two. Thus it technically removed nitrates and phosphates.

It’s not removing something if it hasn’t been formed yet

It’s preventing/reducing new nitrates and phosphates . Not removing existing

 

[JoJosReef]

I voted but really wanted to post this.

No, protein skimmers themselves do not directly remove nitrate and phosphate from aquarium water. Here's why:

• Skimmer Function: Protein skimmers primarily remove dissolved organic compounds (DOCs) from the water column. These DOCs can include proteins, dissolved fish waste, and other organic matter.
• Nitrate and Phosphate Formation: Nitrates and phosphates are the byproducts of the breakdown of these organic compounds by bacteria in the aquarium.

How Skimmers Indirectly Help:

• Reducing Organic Load: By efficiently removing DOCs, skimmers prevent these compounds from accumulating and ultimately breaking down into nitrates and phosphates. This helps to control nutrient levels in the long term.

Other Methods for Nitrate and Phosphate Removal:

• Water Changes: Regular water changes are essential for removing accumulated nitrates and phosphates.
  
  
• Refugiums: Refugiums with macroalgae can effectively consume nitrates and phosphates.
  
  
• Chemical Filtration: Products like GFO (granular ferric oxide) can absorb phosphates from the water.
  
  
• Biopellets: These provide a substrate for bacteria that consume nitrates.

In Summary:

While protein skimmers play a crucial role in maintaining water quality by removing organic matter, they are not the primary tools for directly reducing nitrate and phosphate levels. A combination of methods, including water changes, refugiums, and chemical filtration, is often necessary for effective nutrient control in a reef aquarium.

Disclaimer the above is AI and I did not read any of it prior to posting.

Interesting that AI gives bullets for water changes, refugiums, chem filtration and biopellets. These are what the Internet talks about when discussing nitrate/phosphate removal. Seems like nobody discusses MOAR CORAL as a way to reduce nitrates/phosphates. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Miami Reef]

What do we need a poll for the answer is simple and has been known for years

Just because you know something doesn’t mean someone else does.

Look how many other people voted that they think it does directly remove nitrate and phosphate.

This poll was meant to inform the people who didn’t know.

 

[VintageReefer]

Just because you know something doesn’t mean someone else does.

Look how many other people voted that they think it does directly remove nitrate and phosphate.

This poll was meant to inform the people who didn’t know.

A very valid response. I didn’t take that perspective at first. This thread is a good way to educate

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not strictly correct. Skimmers do remove them because they remove water and that water contains nitrate and phosphate. Yes, I know…just having fun.

Always fun to disagree with Randy…knowing you’ll get crushed because you are simply outmatched :)

Ok, I concede that point. :)

 

[GARRIGA]

Curious if Purigen removes the same organics as skimmers and would that be a more efficient method or supplement since all return water could be ran through a reactor/canister post return pump and prior to returning to display. Thereby scrubbing all organics that it's made to capture vs a skimmer which can only process that which enters it's chamber knowing most sump water likely bypasses it requiring several cycles which allows organics to be naturally decomposed before removal. :thinking-face:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Curious if Purigen removes the same organics as skimmers and would that be a more efficient method or supplement since all return water could be ran through a reactor/canister post return pump and prior to returning to display. Thereby scrubbing all organics that it's made to capture vs a skimmer which can only process that which enters it's chamber knowing most sump water likely bypasses it requiring several cycles which allows organics to be naturally decomposed before removal. :thinking-face:

Purigen and other similar materials remove organics, but not all the same organics as skimming or as GAC. The binding requirements are somewhat different. I’d think of them all as intersecting Ven diagrams.

 

[GARRIGA]

... Ven diagrams.

Had to look that up. In data warehousing, we call that an inner join.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Had to look that up. In data warehousing, we call that an inner join.

When I learned about them in elementary school, data warehousing meant a library. lol