Poll: New Apex Brain using Old Modules

[mitch91175]

No.

I really like the form factor of the classic Apex. The new Apex wouldn't even fit in my current arrangement.

If someone could tell me the difference between the new and old, I'd be glad to position myself for a future upgrade. Otherwise, it sounds like Trident is the major differentiation.

You don't need it for Trident depending on what you want to monitor. There are other alkalinity monitors/controllers already on the market. Yeah the Trident is supposed to measure calcium and magnesium, but you have to ask yourself do you really need to measure those (definitely MAG) depending on how you have your system setup. Mind you I do have 2 Apex 2016 controllers (one for DT and one for frag tank). Do not think I will be investing in the Trident unless it is able to dose those the 3 that it measures without needing to purchase 2 Neptune DOS (they only have units ATM with 2 heads so you will need at least 2 Neptune DOS to dose the 3 - MAG/CAL/ALK). That is also even if it will have the capability to communicate to the DOS to dose say 15ml of ALK or 30ml of MAG when lower than what you want it to be.

So in the instance that the Trident does communicate to the DOS, you easily looking at an additional $600 to dose those 3 elements and only have 1 available head for something else. Now if they came out with a doser that has say 4-6 heads then it may make more sense. But for now it doesn't, at least in my eyes.

 

[VR28man]

Here is a simple heater controller you can buy for exactly $25. You can build better but if are in a rush...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hydro-C...Heating-and-Cooling-Mode-D940010600/303421535

Are build instructions available anywhere? I’m not good with soldering circuit boards and the like, but even if I can’t I am curious.

 

[Elder1945]

The real question is how many people have switched from the Profilux 3 to the Profilux 4......

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Other. I still like my Reef Keeper and have not stepped up to an Apex due to the very high price.

 

[madweazl]

I run a Reef Angel and there is no reason to switch to something else.

 

[Dr. Reef]

My Apex brain is WiFi 2016 model. Though I am running it hard wire. All my modules are more than 10 yrs old probably (black color) and they all work fine.

 

[DiZASTiX]

You don't need it for Trident depending on what you want to monitor. There are other alkalinity monitors/controllers already on the market. Yeah the Trident is supposed to measure calcium and magnesium, but you have to ask yourself do you really need to measure those (definitely MAG) depending on how you have your system setup. Mind you I do have 2 Apex 2016 controllers (one for DT and one for frag tank). Do not think I will be investing in the Trident unless it is able to dose those the 3 that it measures without needing to purchase 2 Neptune DOS (they only have units ATM with 2 heads so you will need at least 2 Neptune DOS to dose the 3 - MAG/CAL/ALK). That is also even if it will have the capability to communicate to the DOS to dose say 15ml of ALK or 30ml of MAG when lower than what you want it to be.

So in the instance that the Trident does communicate to the DOS, you easily looking at an additional $600 to dose those 3 elements and only have 1 available head for something else. Now if they came out with a doser that has say 4-6 heads then it may make more sense. But for now it doesn't, at least in my eyes.

Those are sound and cogent points you make. Indeed, they're expensive toys. What APEX-compatible Alkalinity monitors would you recommend?

I do already own DOS pumps and the reservoirs. I'll be doing the Balling method, when the time comes. My Fusion screen looks like this:

• One - AquaForest 1+
• Two - AquaForest 2+
• Three - AquaForest 3+
• Auto_Top_Off - I re-appropriated one of the dosing pumps as an ATO pump. The container tile keeps track of how much liquid remains
• Tub_Hi - Helps me refill the reservoir properly so I don't overfill.
• Tub_Lo - Last call for refills.

 

[mitch91175]

Those are sound and cogent points you make. Indeed, they're expensive toys. What APEX-compatible Alkalinity monitors would you recommend?

I do already own DOS pumps and the reservoirs. I'll be doing the Balling method, when the time comes. My Fusion screen looks like this:

• One - AquaForest 1+
• Two - AquaForest 2+
• Three - AquaForest 3+
• Auto_Top_Off - I re-appropriated one of the dosing pumps as an ATO pump. The container tile keeps track of how much liquid remains
• Tub_Hi - Helps me refill the reservoir properly so I don't overfill.
• Tub_Lo - Last call for refills.

I think all the units on the market send data to the Apex using a pH port so you can see the ALK results, but I personally use an Alkatronic. Love it. Will be adding a Dosetronic when released. Can operate independently of the Apex as well as send info to the Apex. Check out their thread and you’ll see why it is bad to the bone.

 

[DiZASTiX]

I think all the units on the market send data to the Apex using a pH port so you can see the ALK results, but I personally use an Alkatronic. Love it. Will be adding a Dosetronic when released. Can operate independently of the Apex as well as send info to the Apex. Check out their thread and you’ll see why it is bad to the bone.

That looks fantastic. I think they just earned a new customer here. Thanks for sharing.

 

[mitch91175]

That looks fantastic. I think they just earned a new customer here. Thanks for sharing.

I'll be honest with you just like I was in my review thread, at first I was frustrated with the unit. Some of it my own doing, but once I got beyond my initial frustration it has been absolutely amazing and the support they given in the thread and presence it crazy. I haven't had any need to worry about ALK or CAL because I dose hourly with KALK and have the Alkatronic measure every 4 hours. If it does need to add any ALK, the unit automatically switch to checking every 2 hours and once it is back in my desired range, it goes back to testing every 4 hours.

I have literally had it test my ALK over 150 times since I have had it. It has caught an ALK drop for me already and corrected it. You will be able to see when you do certain maintenance what affect it has on you ALK with it. Best thing that I could have purchased for my tank hands down. If you told me I had to get rid of either my 2016 Apex or the Alkatronic, honestly I'd say take the Apex. I could get by with other things (although wouldn't be as complex as the Apex). I could also get by without the Alkatronic, but I would miss it more. Here is my chart:

Red dots are the unit dosing ALK. I have my range set from 7.75-8.5. I also attached a PDF of my whopping 317 measurements since I have been using it. I don't think anyone here can say that they would have measure their ALK at least 60 times in the last 30 days manually let alone 317 times ;Wideyed

 

[Joe Carioti]

That's an interesting chart. It looks like it only doses when it gets a reading that gets too low. Does it just flat out not dose anything otherwise?

I would think that the ideal solution would be to dial in your daily alk usage and then dose that same amount over 24 hours each day, making slight tweaks to that number after each test result. I already dose my alk over 24 hour periods (something like .1ml every 10 minutes), so this solution actually looks like it'd make my alk readings *more* sporadic than they already are...

 

[mitch91175]

That's an interesting chart. It looks like it only doses when it gets a reading that gets too low. Does it just flat out not dose anything otherwise?

I would think that the ideal solution would be to dial in your daily alk usage and then dose that same amount over 24 hours each day, making slight tweaks to that number after each test result. I already dose my alk over 24 hour periods (something like .1ml every 10 minutes), so this solution actually looks like it'd make my alk readings *more* sporadic than they already are...

Hey it's not for everyone if that is what you are eluding to. This is my chart, others have different charts with more stability than you see in mine. I am not that anal about having a flat line . I don't know about making them looking more sporadic than they are, but I could be wrong if you feel it would make them more sporadic (differences in opinion but you know what they say about opinions right ). But I'd ask, isn't the purpose of a unit like the Alkatronic designed to give you more insight on what is going on with you tank(s)? Just icing on the cake that it can ACTUALLY do something for you regarding that insight.

For my purposes, my current alk usage has been dialed in as much as I want to have it and I know for certain me using the Alkatronic has greatly assisted in doing so and I also get to see at particular times of the day my measures. If I wanted to do so, I could even delve into more details about my lighting schedule and alk or any combination I see fit to see what is going on with my tank.

My situation is likely different than yours. I dose with Kalk so not "dose this amount consistently and yours chart will be a flatline" scenario (at least that is the way I personally feel). If my ATO reservoir needs water my kalk isn't being dosed and the Alkatronic does it for me to push my Alk back up to where I want it until I can refill my reservoir. I could definitely only dose 2 part, but question at this point why do so (to get a flatter line). There is a reason alk/cal have a close relationship and that is why I personally choose to dose Kalk instead. Will I do that forever, who knows. Once they release the Dosetronic, I likely will still dose Kalk and have a combination of kalk/2 part going.

For reasons in this article by Mr. Holmes is why I will continue to dose kalk: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php#8 (regardless of what other methods I decide to use for my tank).

 

[mitch91175]

That's an interesting chart. It looks like it only doses when it gets a reading that gets too low. Does it just flat out not dose anything otherwise?

I would think that the ideal solution would be to dial in your daily alk usage and then dose that same amount over 24 hours each day, making slight tweaks to that number after each test result. I already dose my alk over 24 hour periods (something like .1ml every 10 minutes), so this solution actually looks like it'd make my alk readings *more* sporadic than they already are...

How frequently are you measuring to determine whether you do need to change that dosage? I am lazy when it come to testing I will admit it. Yes I test, but not as CONSISTENTLY as the Alkatronic does it for me. Yeah I know the Trident will test all 3, blah, blah, blah. Well it isn't on the market yet for me to determine whether there will be any benefit over that my current setup is doing. Things change and so do people, but at this space and time I like where I am with my systems and only see things getting better for all of us hobbyist.

There are reasons why people get in and out of the hobby frequently (maintenance, time/effort, financial reasons, etc.). I have been there and the more automated I can make things the more I can enjoy just looking at my tank (although I will always tinker here and there).

 

[Halal Hotdog]

Are build instructions available anywhere? I’m not good with soldering circuit boards and the like, but even if I can’t I am curious.

If you are interested in a DIY type setup then I would highly recommend checking out Reef-pi. It is an open source controller. Setting it up is a bit complicated but would definitely be a fun project. Ranjib provides an enormous amount of information on the setup. Here is the R2R thread for it. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/r...tank-controller-based-on-raspberry-pi.289256/

 

[Joe Carioti]

My situation is likely different than yours. I dose with Kalk so not "dose this amount consistently and yours chart will be a flatline" scenario (at least that is the way I personally feel). If my ATO reservoir needs water my kalk isn't being dosed and the Alkatronic does it for me to push my Alk back up to where I want it until I can refill my reservoir. I could definitely only dose 2 part, but question at this point why do so (to get a flatter line). There is a reason alk/cal have a close relationship and that is why I personally choose to dose Kalk instead. Will I do that forever, who knows. Once they release the Dosetronic, I likely will still dose Kalk and have a combination of kalk/2 part going.

For reasons in this article by Mr. Holmes is why I will continue to dose kalk: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php#8 (regardless of what other methods I decide to use for my tank).

Yeah, I'm not hating on it at all! Anything that helps cut out manual maintenance is good in my book. I was just a little set back by the strategy. It seems little brute force-y. There's always room for improvement.

I actually do use kalk, I just have it running through a kalk stirrer on a constant dosage. As long as I keep my ATO reservoir from going empty, the dosage stays constant. ATO runs off the same reservoir, but through a different pump so it's pure freshwater.

 

[mitch91175]

Yeah, I'm not hating on it at all! Anything that helps cut out manual maintenance is good in my book. I was just a little set back by the strategy. It seems little brute force-y. There's always room for improvement.

I actually do use kalk, I just have it running through a kalk stirrer on a constant dosage. As long as I keep my ATO reservoir from going empty, the dosage stays constant. ATO runs off the same reservoir, but through a different pump so it's pure freshwater.

Not quite understanding the brute force-y comment. Care to elaborate? I assume you mean by it dosing alk when the alk drops below a certain threshold. Is that what you mean? If that is the case I could see if every time it measured you could consider that being "brute force-y", but not quite following the logic. If my alk drops below where I deem it for my needs, I want to have something correct that then I can assess whether I need to increase my dosage if that is occurring each time the unit test. The unit is smart enough to not make a correction of -2dkh, etc all at once, so no "brute force" being done.

 

[Joe Carioti]

Not quite understanding the brute force-y comment. Care to elaborate? I assume you mean by it dosing alk when the alk drops below a certain threshold. Is that what you mean? If that is the case I could see if every time it measured you could consider that being "brute force-y", but not quite following the logic. If my alk drops below where I deem it for my needs, I want to have something correct that then I can assess whether I need to increase my dosage if that is occurring each time the unit test. The unit is smart enough to not make a correction of -2dkh, etc all at once, so no "brute force" being done.

Your tank has a daily usage of alkalinity, let's say it's 1dKh per day. What I want out of my alk monitor/controller is for it to test enough to determine that my daily usage is 1dKh, and dose that amount while testing to make sure the daily usage doesn't change.

The way this machine works is by flat out letting the alk drop to a certain degree, and then dosing an amount to "fix" it. Essentially, it's only keeping the alk above a threshold. That might be fine for a lot of people, I have no doubts that's a better strategy than manual testing and manual dosing.

But... once you have the ability to test 2-4x a day and have control over the dosing element, then you can adjust the strategy from "keep alk above a threshold" to a slightly 'smarter' strategy of "find my tanks daily usage and hold there (while monitoring for usage deviations)".

 

[mitch91175]

Your tank has a daily usage of alkalinity, let's say it's 1dKh per day. What I want out of my alk monitor/controller is for it to test enough to determine that my daily usage is 1dKh, and dose that amount while testing to make sure the daily usage doesn't change.

The way this machine works is by flat out letting the alk drop to a certain degree, and then dosing an amount to "fix" it. Essentially, it's only keeping the alk above a threshold. That might be fine for a lot of people, I have no doubts that's a better strategy than manual testing and manual dosing.

But... once you have the ability to test 2-4x a day and have control over the dosing element, then you can adjust the strategy from "keep alk above a threshold" to a slightly 'smarter' strategy of "find my tanks daily usage and hold there (while monitoring for usage deviations)".

Makes sense so I think I would see what @JonasRoman has to say about your comment above. Sure he will respond in a timely enough fashion for those interested.