Poll on water testing (for ammonia only)

[MnFish1]

There is widespread commentary out there that certain (API) test kits for ammonia are notoriously inaccurate. 1. I thought it would be interesting to see how common this thought is, in general - and compared to other tests. 2. At the start I will list several testing errors that I have seen - that have relatively specific causes. You can choose one of the first 3 and 1 of the last 3. Comment Below

 

[MnFish1]

I have been doing experiments on nitrifying bacteria - using 2 different (new) expiration date API kits. One thing I wanted to see was was there any incidence of the notorius 'false positive' 0.25 ammonia level. Here are my thoughts. Yes - there were a couple - BUT they always related to a time when I made an error. Here are some associated issues with this test.

1. Not rinsing the tube and cap with water to be tested.
2. Not storing the tube and cap after rinsing/drying with tap water.
3. Not holding the bottles of both solutions directly vertical over the top o the tube per the instructions)
4. Adding solution 2 to the tube with solution 1 - before following the instructions to shake tube 1 for x seconds.
5. Not shaking bottle 2 for the required time.
6. Not mixing the final tube (with both solutions) - for the required amount of time.
7. Undershooting the time (not waiting the final 5 minutes.
8. Overshooting the time (will tend to cause false positives)
9. Using an expired kit.
10. Mis-dosing the reagents.
11. not using the stopper (but rather the finger) to cover the tube with mixing (supplied by another reefer)
12. Misreading the color in the wrong light - or the wrong orientation

Comments? Disclaimer - I don't work for API, nor any relationship with API. I have not seen repeated abnormal tests at all - and in every circumstance - the test eventually showed the classic '0 ammonia' yellow.

 

[LeftyReefer]

I don't know why anybody would bother with this API junk test.
just get a Seachem Ammonia badge for cycling a new tank or for use with QT/hospital tanks.

Once you tank is established, you don't even need to test for ammonia. A badge works better for QT use anyway.

 

[nereefpat]

The kit has one issue, and that issue is that zero can look like 0.25 ppm to some of our eyes.

It drives me bonkers when someone posts a 1ppm reading with this kit and people say it's a false positive because this kit gives high readings.

The kit works fine. I can test freshly made saltwater, and it reads zero. I can test my cycled tanks, and it reads zero. I can calculate how many mLs it will take to cycle my quarantine tank, and the reading will be close after I add the ammonia. People who say this kit doesn't work either haven't used it, don't know what they are talking about, or both.

 

[Little c big D]

It can easily be done wrong. The famous .25 scares people but indont think it ever should raise an alarm. It's a good test to see that you're processing

 

[brandon429]

excellent thread.

another factor: no reef tank runs at zero ammonia, so we can't expect api to show that hard yellow on running reef tanks


irony: the zero readings are the misread admit that's moderately funny

when api shows light green on a running tank, .25, per Dan's reminders and Randy's that translates roughly to .o25 nh3 which is safe, and that's why all the tanks claiming false ammonia stalls aren't dead, theyre thriving. because the kit isn't digital, it can't measure the true reading: .0025 nh3/ courtesy of seneye which resolves ammonia control issues vs originate them all.

 

[MnFish1]

I don't know why anybody would bother with this API junk test.
just get a Seachem Ammonia badge for cycling a new tank or for use with QT/hospital tanks.

Once you tank is established, you don't even need to test for ammonia. A badge works better for QT use anyway.

Agreed (except about the 'junk test part'. The question is is the difference 'real' between the tests (i.e. I do not like many of the other colorimetric tests). Does API really have more false reading than others. Thats why I put the choice 'I never test ammonia'. (Until I started this experiment - I have never tested ammonia in 30 years).

 

[brandon429]

its hard for me to make a vote considering the .25's are correct in context. when they report 8 ppm/ fully opaque green in cycles where seneye showed hundredths ppm, to me that's an example of api misreads/red sea is very common over stater too.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sustained-ammonia-spikes-are-misreads.802470/
here's my red sea ammonia false read thread. 8 pages going on of totally false reads causing false alarms and overselling bottle bac as the programmed reaction. based on those reactions intercepted i'd have to vote that not owning a digital ammonia test kit and bothering to test for ammonia as a reef tank is fully running is a formula for problems.

I can't really make a vote, I dont own ammonia test kits but merely respond to the posted concerns of others. in that context, stated misreads completely take cycling posts off track by ten miles, they're so bad I recommend no cycler use non digital kits, use a timing-based cycle approach for timeliness and reliable end dates known.

 

[MnFish1]

The kit has one issue, and that issue is that zero can look like 0.25 ppm to some of our eyes.

It drives me bonkers when someone posts a 1ppm reading with this kit and people say it's a false positive because this kit gives high readings.

The kit works fine. I can test freshly made saltwater, and it reads zero. I can test my cycled tanks, and it reads zero. I can calculate how many mLs it will take to cycle my quarantine tank, and the reading will be close after I add the ammonia. People who say this kit doesn't work either haven't used it, don't know what they are talking about, or both.

THIS IS TRUE - depending on the light - the zero can almost look like 0.25. Another comment I forgot - if there is a hint of green - but its basically yellow - thats considered 0 - not 0.25. Second if its not fully green - and has some yellow - that would be considered '0.25' not '0'. You 'round' the value to the nearest color.

 

[MnFish1]

its hard for me to make a vote considering the .25's are correct in context. when they report 8 ppm/ fully opaque green in cycles where seneye showed hundredths ppm, to me that's an example of api misreads/red sea is very common over stater too.

I'm going to ignore the red-sea part -because this is only about API. One problem with API - and any test kit - is that a reading below 8 (0-8) - is readable. Once it gets to the point where it looks 'more opaque' - that level might be 20 ppm - as compared to 8.

In the case of the Seneye, that equipment is measuring something totally different, most people do not have them. Of course - now you have 2 different tests - which are both affected by different tank parameters - (salinity, pH, ammonia). So - I don't know how to judge that either. However I would suggest that if you have a tank - with 8 ppm ammonia - and very little free ammonia - either one test is incorrect (the Seneye or the API), was done incorrectly, or there is some kind of error.

Also think about the fact that - according to Seneye - high ammonia levels damage the slide - and lead to faulty readings. Its an interesting comment though

 

[brandon429]

api is the most common ammonia tester in the hobby that makes sense to keep it api specific/addresses what the masses use.

posts alongside seneye like this one show the marked lag time from api to indicate safe ammonia levels reached, after a big blast of it during cycling:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-cycle-seneye-vs-api.859493/


* I honestly don't think seneye is the end all be all of testing it just matches the tank life form presentation in each post. whether its off by tenths or hundredths in measure needs to be determined when we get a third type of digital tester as an umpire. or, someone with access to both Hach ammonia digital and seneye can run some proofing on known pH/temp setups and post the findings. run the two meters on a running reef tank, and post that reading, I'd love to see

my example thread on red sea above shows non digital testing not ever matching the tank lifeform presentation, the kit causes concern and a tank pic eliminates it. seneye doesn't do that for 8 pages is why I like it, so far.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I have API, I just tested my 1.5 year old tank and get 0 reading.

I have a 10 gallon that I've been ghost feeding for 6 months, and just last week added emerald crab, hermits crabs, 2 snails, zanzibar shrimp, and sun coral. The snails died overnight, so I tested with API and have ammonia of 1. I fed microbacter7 (I cant find Tims in Canada) 7 days ago, and still have a reading of 1 today, even though nothing else died and all are eating and acting normal.

I am surprised there is ammonia reading even though I've been ghost feeding since last summer, but I still assume the API ammonia test is correct.

 

[MnFish1]

I have API, I just tested my 1.5 year old tank and get 0 reading.

I have a 10 gallon that I've been ghost feeding for 6 months, and just last week added emerald crab, hermits crabs, 2 snails, zanzibar shrimp, and sun coral. The snails died overnight, so I tested with API and have ammonia of 1. I fed microbacter7 (I cant find Tims in Canada) 7 days ago, and still have a reading of 1 today, even though nothing else died and all are eating and acting normal.

I am surprised there is ammonia reading even though I've been ghost feeding since last summer, but I still assume the API ammonia test is correct.

The Free ammonia - which the API test does not test directly - depends greatly on pH. Thus - an ammonia of '1' may not be toxic to most things if the pH is 7.7. etc etc. I wonder - if its possible that your snail died from something else - and caused the spike of ammonia.

 

[MnFish1]

api is the most common ammonia tester in the hobby that makes sense to keep it api specific/addresses what the masses use.

posts alongside seneye like this one show the marked lag time from api to indicate safe ammonia levels reached, after a big blast of it during cycling:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-cycle-seneye-vs-api.859493/


* I honestly don't think seneye is the end all be all of testing it just matches the tank life form presentation in each post. whether its off by tenths or hundredths in measure needs to be determined when we get a third type of digital tester as an umpire. or, someone with access to both Hach ammonia digital and seneye can run some proofing on known pH/temp setups and post the findings. run the two meters on a running reef tank, and post that reading, I'd love to see

my example thread on red sea above shows non digital testing not ever matching the tank lifeform presentation, the kit causes concern and a tank pic eliminates it. seneye doesn't do that for 8 pages is why I like it, so far.

What you are not commenting on - is that in that thread - its people talking about 'unexpected' test results. I.e.,' My tank should be cycled, but the tests say its not, etc etc etc.'. On the there hand, people whose tanks cycled in the proper time are not posting - wow - I just used bacteria and dry rock and my tank cycled in a week - and the seneye matched it. Non-digital testing matches the lifeforms presentation (my guess) 95 percent of the time.

PS - In all of my testing - the Seachem alert badge matched perfectly the API testing. (with one exception - where I in error added too many drops of one of the reagent). My guess is that as another poster said - using a Seachem alert badge is likely preferable to using an API test kit.

PS - if you're using the API test kits and you want an estimate of your 'Free ammonia' - as measured by the Seneye or Seachem alert - you can use this calculator:

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

 

[ReefGeezer]

1. IMO... ammonia measurement beyond early stages of old school cycling are not necessary.
2. IME... API ammonia tests always shows some elevation. It seems the color it develops just never matches the 0 color on the chart.
3. The Seneye has complicated the issue further. Its wide disparity in resolution, precision, and accuracy combined with the quite unnecessary focus on very low levels of ammonia it appears to measure, and a misunderstanding of the reading the Seneye is reporting are causing hobbyists to make decisions that are at the minimum not very productive.

 

[Azedenkae]

I never had issues using the API test kit.

In the past when I asked about this, turns out people had issues with its resolution. I.e. for example, if the API test kit reads 4ppm ammonia, it's not actually clear if it's probably between 3 to 6ppm or so because the color does not offer enough resolution.

But it is consistent. I.e. it will provide the same reading every single time.

This is a significant distinction that does affect how it is regarded.

 

[brandon429]

There isnt wide disparity, there’s seneye showing stocked and running displays in the thousandths ppm nh3 99.9% of the time

No other ammonia kit in history comes nearly as close to this consistency


post some links that show your investigation into misreading seneye nh3

seneye fixes cycling issues, status issues, the only time it causes concern we find setup or slide handling and prep issues. When following directions, seneye takes away the power of bottle bac sellers to scare everyone into triple purchases to alleviate stress.

source for the claim: my twenty pages collection of links different from above where false api tests primarily caused every person to doubt their bacteria were alive, sometimes in tanks beyond a year fully stocked and running.


seneye is a problem solver, it cannot be painted as a problem causer, awaiting links to show details.

 

[brandon429]

Presumably MN would like to keep focus on api for poll/ check / seneye needed a buddy lol.


all seneye proofing needs to be a different thread /check

 

[Little c big D]

There isnt wide disparity, there’s seneye showing stocked and running displays in the thousandths ppm nh3 99.9% of the time

No other ammonia kit in history comes nearly as close to this consistency


post some links that show your investigation into misreading seneye nh3

seneye fixes cycling issues, status issues, the only time it causes concern we find setup or slide handling and prep issues. When following directions, seneye takes away the power of bottle bac sellers to scare everyone into triple purchases to alleviate stress.

source for the claim: my twenty pages collection of links different from above where false api tests primarily caused every person to doubt their bacteria were alive, sometimes in tanks beyond a year fully stocked and running.


seneye is a problem solver, it cannot be painted as a problem causer, awaiting links to show details.

I think the point he makes is your average person doesn't need a seneye and it's wasteful. Which you should agree with. Also his point is people reacting to the minor amounts pf nh3 recorded.

I never had issues using the API test kit.

In the past when I asked about this, turns out people had issues with its resolution. I.e. for example, if the API test kit reads 4ppm ammonia, it's not actually clear if it's probably between 3 to 6ppm or so because the color does not offer enough resolution.

But it is consistent. I.e. it will provide the same reading every single time.

This is a significant distinction that does affect how it is regarded.

I like this as a point. And it gives us enough to understand if the tank is safe.

 

[ying yang]

Not had problem of the notorious 0.25 reading which many say and never have a 0.this is in fresh water and saltwater tanks.

I even went and bought a salifert testkit as got told there better than api but salifert and api both read same ppm so that was waste of money lol

I just do test as it says on the bottle and clean after use and use rolled up bog roll to dry vial then store on the handy container you get with the master test kits