Poll: Stable #'s and water changes

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes-Farley' started by specialk, Mar 8, 2018.

?
  1. No - I mix and go

    468 vote(s)
    59.8%
  2. No - I found a salt that is close enough

    257 vote(s)
    32.9%
  3. Yes - I adjust to match Alk

    64 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. Yes - I adjust to match Cal

    16 vote(s)
    2.0%
  5. Yes - I adjust to match Mag

    12 vote(s)
    1.5%
  6. Yes - I adjust to match pH

    12 vote(s)
    1.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. jsker

    jsker Reefing is all about the adventure Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    It will not hurt to add another power head at the top;)
     
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  2. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

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    Ok, and have that kicking air and bubbles into the water ....Will 45 minutes of that be good enough you think? ...then add it to the tank?
     
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  3. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Not sure the question.

    I mix mine in 5g buckets with a 1200 Maxijet. Depending on the day depends how soon I use it really. Most often , immediately.

    What’s the concern?
     
  4. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Build Thread Contributor

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    Two tanks, 55 n 30

    As far as nutrients ,Depends on when in the last number of years we’re talking about really or if the wife is feeding the tank. Lol.
     
  5. madweazl

    madweazl Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor

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    I use Instant Ocean salt and maintain the following levels:

    Alkalinity - 7.5 - 8.0 dKh (generally 7.7)
    Calciaum - 400 - 420 (generally 405)
    Magnesium - 1290 - 1380 (generally 1320)

    I do 13% water changes (10 gallons) weekly on a 75g system. I add 3ml muriatic acid to each 5g bucket of new ASW; this drops the alkalinity to approximately 7.5 dKh. I do not add calcium or magnesium supplements to the ASW and my levels increase slightly (Ca typically around 415 and Mg typically around 1320-1350). I use a small powerhead in each 5g mixing bucket and I use the venturi attachment for aeration. I mix the water with a heater like this for 12-18 hours. When I do a water change, there is zero response from the corals (acropora dominated tank); it is like nothing happened. There is no observable change in pH on my controllers probe.

    Edit: prior to using muriatic acid to lower the alkalinity, I'd measure .3-.5 dKh increase after the water change. A few of the acropora would slime for a short period right after but were otherwise ok.
     
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  6. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

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    I am hoping that aerating a 18 gallon bucket of freshly mixed water, with a power head on the top surface blowing bubbles and air into the water, will be good enough to get the PH back to normal
     
  7. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    Yes. The pH may drop into the 6's, so monitor to know when it is done. Others have done this and find it also solves the problem of any precipitate in IO mixing barrels. :)
     
  8. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

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    Perfect thank You! Was not sure if that powerhead at the bottom would be enough, OR if I had to have one at the top of the surface as well being more agressive with pulling air into the water...

    Good to know one at the bottom will be enough
     
  9. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

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    Also Randy ...I'm going to test and monitor, but is there a ballpark time you think it would take for 20 gallons and the ph to come back up? (Just so I have an idea)
     
  10. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    Time depends entirely on the vigorousness of the aeration. The more the faster. I've not tried it to see how long but I wouldn't expect less than overnight. Might be longer, especially of the CO2 accumulates in the room air around it and isn't flushed out reasonably fast.
     
  11. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

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    Here I was thinking it would only take an hour or so ..dang
     
  12. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

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    Just curious ... what would happen if I did add the new batch of salt mix too soon and that new saltwater went in with lower ph? (in this case, I would be adding 17 gallons of new water to a 145 gallon system -- well 128 gallonn of water as I took out 17 gallons)
     
  13. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    It could stress organisms. I can't see a reason to do it, but if you do, do it slowly.
     
  14. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

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    Yah I will make sure I do not .. was just curious. I am currently doing it right now, and you were not kidding ... that ph did drop like a rock. wow.

    I currently have the powerhead at the bottom submerged mising the water, and then another power head at the top, 1/2 way submerged and kicking in air bubbles into the water .. so I am curious how long this is going to take ... which is fine because I have a lot of work in my tank today ... so I am going to continue to monitor.

    I tested the ph with the new salt (just using API test kit) and it was around 7.8. Alk was around 11.2. I added 5 ml acid.
     
  15. mdbannister

    mdbannister Ahh...the Reef Life Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    This is my basic take on it too
     
  16. hybridazn

    hybridazn Acro killer..... Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter 3RMAS Member R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Showcase Editor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    If where you keep your parameters differ that mich from IO that a 15% bi weekly change affects things that bad I would highly suggest finding a new salt that reflect closer to where you want to be.

    By the time you calculate the cost of IO, extra materials and your time to fight IO to match, you can just buy another salt mix. That would be my course of action.
     
  17. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    IO adjusted to lower alk won't cost appreciably more than IO. An $8 bottle of muriatic acid has the potential to drop 8,000 gallons of seawater by 4 dKH. :)
     
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  18. reefndude

    reefndude Valuable Member

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    I use io and use acid to drop alk. I mix 20 gallons at a time. Drop 7.2 ml of muriatic acid to bring it down to right around 8 dkh. I mix for 24 hrs with no heat. If I'm doing water change i will then add a heater about a hour before hand to bring temp up.
    Tank parameters stay steady at 7.8-8 dkh
    400 ppm Ca
    And 1350 mag
    With dosing tank it stays pretty consistent
     
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  19. hybridazn

    hybridazn Acro killer..... Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter 3RMAS Member R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Showcase Editor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Oh yea I def get that, I suppose I should have worded my response a bit differently lol. I can only speak for myself but spending an extra $10-15 on a box of salt that is closer to the parameters I like would be easier to use and less "hassle" are worth the extra money.

    There are so many options out there in this hobby I just can't see why we would want to add buffer or acid to manipulate a salt mix to match what we want when it's already out there.
     
  20. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

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    +1

    This is my first go round of this and I am finding it extremely easy. I started about 2 hours ago and am finding my ph rebounding quicker then I expected. So this really is not a hassle at all. And I get my #s to evenly match up.

    Also on the cost, the salts that have #s close to mine, are $35+ more then what I pay now for IO. So I am fine doing this .. again very very simple.

    But to eachs own and everyone has their own methods and madness ... lord knows I have a ton of the latter!
     
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