Poll: Stable #'s and water changes

[specialk]

Oh yea I def get that, I suppose I should have worded my response a bit differently lol. I can only speak for myself but spending an extra $10-15 on a box of salt that is closer to the parameters I like would be easier to use and less "hassle" are worth the extra money.

There are so many options out there in this hobby I just can't see why we would want to add buffer or acid to manipulate a salt mix to match what we want when it's already out there.

and PS .. whats up brother ... bought some frags from you over the years that are in my tank now -- so here's hoping to a hapy tank with my efforts here ...lol

 

[reefndude]

+1

This is my first go round of this and I am finding it extremely easy. I started about 2 hours ago and am finding my ph rebounding quicker then I expected. So this really is not a hassle at all. And I get my #s to evenly match up.

Also on the cost, the salts that have #s close to mine, are $35+ more then what I pay now for IO. So I am fine doing this .. again very very simple.

But to eachs own and everyone has their own methods and madness ... lord knows I have a ton of the latter!

My thoughts exactly. The bottle of muriatic acid I use now for 3 plus years. Maybe half gone now.

 

[hybridazn]

and PS .. whats up brother ... bought some frags from you over the years that are in my tank now -- so here's hoping to a hapy tank with my efforts here ...lol

Haha I did recognize the name. Hope all is well. I was also hoping you didn't take any offense to anything I had to say, I've always been a make things simpler kind of fella haha.

We all have the same end goal, it's just there are so many different paths to get there. The only thing that matters is that we all get there hahaha

 

[specialk]

Haha I did recognize the name. Hope all is well. I was also hoping you didn't take any offense to anything I had to say, I've always been a make things simpler kind of fella haha.

We all have the same end goal, it's just there are so many different paths to get there. The only thing that matters is that we all get there hahaha

Heck no man .. none taken ... you kidding me. Thats why these forums are great .. Im on here for tons of opinions and different ideas. Would have it no other way

 

[madweazl]

Only takes a few seconds

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Only takes a few seconds

I like the little skull and crossbones you put on it.

 

[specialk]

I like the little skull and crossbones you put on it.

That is awesome.

My day is complete, new water change and was a breeze. Totally worth it. Thanks Randy and everyone for the help on this!

 

[SpiderWeb]

Why so many water changes? Do you have a heavy load? Just my opinion, it seems like overkill and you're not giving your tank stability let alone making your tank sterile with so many water changes...

 

[petemichelle]

so what was the final formula amount, and time for the ph to come back up, and come back up to what number? what number alk did you end up with, and calcium and mag? did it effect the calcium or mag? what brand acid did you get? I am in the same boat and would like to try. The Red Sea Blue bucket gives me around 9.2 alk. I would like it closer to 8. The big barrier I see in this is that I know from past experience that Red Sea salt doesn't like to be mixed for too long. It gets all cloudy if it is mixed for say 4-6 hours.

 

[specialk]

Why so many water changes? Do you have a heavy load? Just my opinion, it seems like overkill and you're not giving your tank stability let alone making your tank sterile with so many water changes...

Not sure I understand. Why so many changes...? 10% bi-weekly water changes are quite normal.

 

[David Taghehchian]

Hey All ..

So curious about something ... in an ongoing effort to keep my #'s rock steady, stable and consistent, along with CONSISTENT bi-weekly 15% water changes on a 125 gal tank (145 gallon all total with sump)....

... when I am doing the water changes naturally the salt mix I use (I use the regular instant ocean) does not have the exact same #'s across the board as I keep my system running at.

So everytime I do a change every other week, my numbers flucuate a bit and I am back to chasing #'s, water for calcium to fall down a bit to get to my desired #, THEN start to dose like I used to and normally do for 2 weeks until my next water change .. then repeat and have #'s all over the place again.

So I am wondering how everyone keeps their #'s stable when you are dosing, and then do a water change and cause your numbers to jump a bit ... do you just dose right away after you do a water change to get the #'s back up to where they were ? What about if you keep your alk at 8.3, you do a water change and it jumps to "9.0" ... obviously you dont keep the dosing pump running for the alk or it will make the #'s all out of whack again ..

You can see what I am getting at and wondering .. how you manage these stable #s with consistent water changes

I used to do the exact same thing because I was chasing numbers. Chasing numbers doesn't necessarily mean adjusting to a set point at any specific time, in my experience it means being worried about the set point in the first place. You should chase consistency ALL the time not just between water changes. The best way to do that?

Keep your parameters equal to whatver a new batch of salt is. I.e. if alk is 7.8 and Ca is 405 at salinity of 34 for the salt you use, just dose to maintain those levels as corals consume the bicarbonate and calcium. Don't increase them to 8.6 because Brs tv said it's the optimal growth alkalinity measurement.

The other, more cumbersome method is to dose your new batch to match the tank. That requires lots of testing.

The key to success is LONG term stability/consistency. Making that as easy for yourself as possible means a higher likelihood of success. Otherwise it's too easy to get frustrated and neglect the tank when things don't go well.

This is just my 2 cents based on my reefing journey.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

so what was the final formula amount, and time for the ph to come back up, and come back up to what number? what number alk did you end up with, and calcium and mag? did it effect the calcium or mag? what brand acid did you get? I am in the same boat and would like to try. The Red Sea Blue bucket gives me around 9.2 alk. I would like it closer to 8. The big barrier I see in this is that I know from past experience that Red Sea salt doesn't like to be mixed for too long. It gets all cloudy if it is mixed for say 4-6 hours.

It has no effect on calcium or magnesium, unless there is solid precipitate on the bottom of the salt water that it dissolves. The alk drop you are looking for is quite small, but the pH drop will still stop any precipitation on additional mixing.

The pH will come back all the way to normal for the alk and the air in your home. What that is depends on those factors, but could be 8.1-8.2 if you bring the pH to 7 dKH and fully aerate with normal (outside) air.

I gave recipe links earlier in the thread:

Sodium Bisulfate
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...in-new-salt-water-or-in-display-tanks.362825/

Muriatic acid:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reducing-alkalinity.339109/#post-4214464

 

[specialk]

so what was the final formula amount, and time for the ph to come back up, and come back up to what number? what number alk did you end up with, and calcium and mag? did it effect the calcium or mag? what brand acid did you get? I am in the same boat and would like to try. The Red Sea Blue bucket gives me around 9.2 alk. I would like it closer to 8. The big barrier I see in this is that I know from past experience that Red Sea salt doesn't like to be mixed for too long. It gets all cloudy if it is mixed for say 4-6 hours.

Added the salt around 1030 am.
18 gallons
Added roughly 5ml of Muriatic Acid (just general brand I got from local Ace Hardware)
Left a powerhead submerged mixing the salt in the bottom
Also had another powerhead 1/2 way submerged at the top pushing air bubbles into the water
Initial readings BEFORE adding the acid -- Alk, 11.2 -- Ph 8.0
After I added, Ph significantly dropped
Took about 3 hours and Ph raised back up to 8.0. Alk, 7.4

Extremely extremely easy

 

[specialk]

I used to do the exact same thing because I was chasing numbers. Chasing numbers doesn't necessarily mean adjusting to a set point at any specific time, in my experience it means being worried about the set point in the first place. You should chase consistency ALL the time not just between water changes. The best way to do that?

Keep your parameters equal to whatver a new batch of salt is. I.e. if alk is 7.8 and Ca is 405 at salinity of 34 for the salt you use, just dose to maintain those levels as corals consume the bicarbonate and calcium. Don't increase them to 8.6 because Brs tv said it's the optimal growth alkalinity measurement.

The other, more cumbersome method is to dose your new batch to match the tank. That requires lots of testing.

The key to success is LONG term stability/consistency. Making that as easy for yourself as possible means a higher likelihood of success. Otherwise it's too easy to get frustrated and neglect the tank when things don't go well.

This is just my 2 cents based on my reefing journey.

That is exactly what I am trying to do ... chase consistency all the time. I want my #s to be stable all the time, even when I do water changes.

I am dropping my Alk, because my Nitrate and P04 are low, so I want the Alk to therefor be around 7. I want to consistently keep the alk at that #, as my sps and system respond the best when it is at that level. 450 is always where I keep my Calcium.

Additionally, IO is a good cost effective salt. Could I switch salts to where the salt mix is consistent with my #s I am running .. sure. But it would cost more and it is not needed. Cost significantly more. I can use that money on other things for my tank

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Added the salt around 1030 am.
18 gallons
Added roughly 5ml of Muriatic Acid (just general brand I got from local Ace Hardware)
Left a powerhead submerged mixing the salt in the bottom
Also had another powerhead 1/2 way submerged at the top pushing air bubbles into the water
Initial readings BEFORE adding the acid -- Alk, 11.2 -- Ph 8.0
After I added, Ph significantly dropped
Took about 3 hours and Ph raised back up to 8.0. Alk, 7.4

Extremely extremely easy

Great!

 

[specialk]

And again, thank you for your help on this! @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[specialk]

And again, thank you for your help on this! --- everyone!!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Happy reefing.

 

[dimo]

This is a great thread. I've been thinking about ways to reduce parameters in freshwater as well. More specifically alkalinity. I can't bring myself to spending 50-100% more on salt just because it has a target alkalinity closer to my reef compared to cheaper, easier to get options. The muriatic acid solution is right up my alley and I may be incorporating it in my water change schedule.

Thanks!

 

[madweazl]

Awesome, hit the target on your alkalinity first try it looks like.