Poll: Stable #'s and water changes

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes-Farley' started by specialk, Mar 8, 2018.

?
  1. No - I mix and go

    468 vote(s)
    59.8%
  2. No - I found a salt that is close enough

    257 vote(s)
    32.9%
  3. Yes - I adjust to match Alk

    64 vote(s)
    8.2%
  4. Yes - I adjust to match Cal

    16 vote(s)
    2.0%
  5. Yes - I adjust to match Mag

    12 vote(s)
    1.5%
  6. Yes - I adjust to match pH

    12 vote(s)
    1.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    232
    Location:
    Cleveland / Lakewood, Ohio
    Hey All ..

    So curious about something ... in an ongoing effort to keep my #'s rock steady, stable and consistent, along with CONSISTENT bi-weekly 15% water changes on a 125 gal tank (145 gallon all total with sump)....

    ... when I am doing the water changes naturally the salt mix I use (I use the regular instant ocean) does not have the exact same #'s across the board as I keep my system running at.

    So everytime I do a change every other week, my numbers flucuate a bit and I am back to chasing #'s, water for calcium to fall down a bit to get to my desired #, THEN start to dose like I used to and normally do for 2 weeks until my next water change .. then repeat and have #'s all over the place again.

    So I am wondering how everyone keeps their #'s stable when you are dosing, and then do a water change and cause your numbers to jump a bit ... do you just dose right away after you do a water change to get the #'s back up to where they were ? What about if you keep your alk at 8.3, you do a water change and it jumps to "9.0" ... obviously you dont keep the dosing pump running for the alk or it will make the #'s all out of whack again ..

    You can see what I am getting at and wondering .. how you manage these stable #s with consistent water changes
     
    cracker, jsker and NY_Caveman like this.
    Tags:

  2. NY_Caveman

    NY_Caveman Man of Many Caves R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2017
    Messages:
    3,131
    Likes Received:
    10,391
    Location:
    New York
    I wonder about this too. For my new build I chose to try LiveAquaria salt because it mixes closest to where I will want my parameters to be. IO is cheaper, but the Alkalinity is pretty high. Seems like a lot of salts have quite high Alkalinity. I get some are high to replace used buffering capacity with small water changes, but for a tank fill that is just too high for my system.
     
    jsker likes this.
  3. jwshiver

    jwshiver Active Member R2R Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    265
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    I use a salt brand, Tropic Marin Pro, that has dkh slightly lower than what I maintain in DT. I match salinity and temp then I test DT and new saltwater mix before I do water change. I use the Bulk Reef calculator to figure how much 2 part to add to bring dkh up of new salt water to match DT. I let it run 1 - 2 hours to let the pH stablize because dosing soda ash will raise the pH. Double check temp and adjust then make water change.
     
    jsker and cracker like this.
  4. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Messages:
    30,264
    Likes Received:
    17,684
    Location:
    Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
    Your target level for calcium should not be lower than normal IO, which is low to start with in the mid to upper 300's, depending on the salinity.

    What is your target?

    As to alk, you can do smaller water changes, lower the alk in the salt mix with acid, or use a different mix. People do all of these.
     
    Mal11224, saltyfilmfolks and jsker like this.
  5. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    232
    Location:
    Cleveland / Lakewood, Ohio
    Well for calcium it is 450. It is not so much the calcium as it is the Alk. My target for the alk is 8.3 ... I have no issues raising it and KEEPING it a bit higher, I just remember reading something awhile ago that showed the #s of many successful and thriving sps tanks, and many of the Alk #s were low 8's. So that is what I was and am aiming for ... but if there is no issue in keeping it at high 8's or even low 9's, I may opt for that. Thoughts on that?
     
    jsker likes this.
  6. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Expert Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2014
    Messages:
    30,264
    Likes Received:
    17,684
    Location:
    Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
    OK, I agree the alk is higher than most keep and the calcium is lower. You can boost the calcium in the new mix as needed.

    Alk lowering is possible:

    The pH drops like a rock adding acid to deplete alkalinity, so it must be done slowly.

    Here are some threads describing how to do it:

    Sodium Bisulfate
    https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...in-new-salt-water-or-in-display-tanks.362825/

    Muriatic acid:
    https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reducing-alkalinity.339109/#post-4214464
     
    jsker likes this.
  7. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    232
    Location:
    Cleveland / Lakewood, Ohio
    Th
    Thanks Randy ...

    I have low P04 and low nitrate ... so I am actually going to start lowering my alk to around 7 (slowly) ... I can't keep po4 and nitrate in my system it seems and its always running low, so I need to lower my alk. So I am going to have to lower it while mixing the salt
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    jsker likes this.
  8. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    232
    Location:
    Cleveland / Lakewood, Ohio
    Ok ok ok .. I get what you are saying after I posted that last one ... So simply, if I am mixing 20 gallons of water for the water change (and IO calcium is 400) simply use the calculator and figure out what is needed to raise the calcium to my current 450 level and add the supplement as needed ... correct? and then simply lower the alk as needed to better fit into the ideal alk # I am running at
     
    jsker likes this.
  9. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    232
    Location:
    Cleveland / Lakewood, Ohio
    and this may be a dumb question... but in aerating, will a simple powerhead at the bottom of the mixing bin for about 45 minutes AFTER I mix the salt be ok?

    I use a power head any way to mix the salt up while I am taking out the old water ... so I mix the salt with a power head to start and do it before I do anything else... then I let it mix for about 30-45 minutes while I clean the tank, etc. then when that is done I come back and add the new water ... will that powerhead in the bottom of the bin properly aerate it?
     
    jsker likes this.
  10. cracker

    cracker Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    3,890
    Likes Received:
    4,461
    Location:
    north east Fl
    I get the same thing. I tried to match my new water but every barrel seems different . I think it's how much time the new water stays in the barrel. So now I just test the new water .use a calculator to dose it then use right away.
    What I don't get is is the levels drop in the barrel then why not in the tank? I'm missing something.
     
    chipmunkofdoom2 and jsker like this.
  11. jsker

    jsker Reefing is all about the adventure Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2015
    Messages:
    16,735
    Likes Received:
    25,637
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Mine do fluctuate between batchs of salt but otherwise stay pretty steady

    Have you thought about a auto water change? this would help the fluctuations after water changes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    WWIII and chipmunkofdoom2 like this.
  12. saltyfilmfolks

    saltyfilmfolks Lights! Camera! Reef! R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader R2R Excellence Award Photo of the Month Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    24,888
    Likes Received:
    25,571
    Location:
    California
    Using IO with 10% water changes every other week, I just never worried about it that much. Never saw a diffence in the tanks or coral growth. Alk at 8. (Ish ...lol)

    E169BC40-1232-458D-A87D-E1A7BAF39851.jpeg
    Kinda sps heavy too....
     
  13. chipmunkofdoom2

    chipmunkofdoom2 Always Making Something R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    2,014
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Personally I would find a salt mix that has parameters near what you want, then just target that. For example, Red Sea blue bucket has around 8.5 dKh, 425 ppm Ca and 1,250 ppm Mg. If the water you're taking out of your tank has the exact same carbonate, calcium and magnesium, there's no need to adjust anything.
     
  14. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    232
    Location:
    Cleveland / Lakewood, Ohio
    Colors are good as well? Also how many gallons you have ?

    PO3 and nitrate relatively low?
     
    saltyfilmfolks likes this.
  15. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    232
    Location:
    Cleveland / Lakewood, Ohio
    Anyone on my aerating question... ? :(
     
    saltyfilmfolks likes this.
  16. cracker

    cracker Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    3,890
    Likes Received:
    4,461
    Location:
    north east Fl
    I'd "think " if a power head was busting up the water surface good would work fine. after all gas exchange happens at the water surface. Again I "think" an air stone doesn't exchange while rising in the water ,it just busts up the water surface well. Just my theory. Always wondered which is best. An air stone producing air bubbles or water surface agitation. This is a great topic !
     
    saltyfilmfolks likes this.
  17. jsker

    jsker Reefing is all about the adventure Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2015
    Messages:
    16,735
    Likes Received:
    25,637
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Since the are no live animals or corals, I would say that this would not be a concern.
     
  18. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    232
    Location:
    Cleveland / Lakewood, Ohio
    so a powerhead at the bottom of the bucket mixing the salt submurged under water would probobly aerate it and bring the ph back up?
     
    cracker, saltyfilmfolks and jsker like this.
  19. jsker

    jsker Reefing is all about the adventure Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2015
    Messages:
    16,735
    Likes Received:
    25,637
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Randy will correct me;) I do not think the Ph will drop or only slightly in the mixing process.
     
    saltyfilmfolks likes this.
  20. specialk

    specialk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    232
    Location:
    Cleveland / Lakewood, Ohio
    I'm sorry ....should have clarified ....I meant after I add the acid to bring down the alk. IO is 11...I want my fresh batch to be around 8 or lower

    Sorry, should have made that clear
     
    saltyfilmfolks and jsker like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
Loading...