Polyps closing. Emptied skimmer into refugium.

[Bitcoin Reefer]

My daisy polyps are closing up today for the whole day. About 70% of them, not all. Not sure what might be causing it.

I have a hunch that it’s because yesterday I emptied my protein skimmer cup into my refugium because my nitrates had hit 0. I meant to only release about 1/4 of the cup, but the drain tube cap fell off and like 80% spilled in before I caught it. It smelled up my whole house like sulfur/rotten eggs.

It was about 10 days of skimmate, but I just moved the entire 300 gallon tank from old house to new without rinsing or tossing sand, so it might have collected more nastiness than normal. Could this be the cause?

I tested ammonia and it was .5 or higher. A bit concerning, but thinking tank should be able to adapt quickly as the tons of live rock in DT and Refugium, sand, etc all should be robust with bacteria.

The photo I attached is just a general pic of the tank, I’ll take photo of the daisy polyp when I get home.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Oh also. Almost all other coral look fine, except one small Zoa which has had 3 out of 5 polyps closed for a few days. Not sure if it’s related.

 

[exnisstech]

Might it have been better to just turn the skimmer off for a while

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Oh also. Almost all other coral look fine, except one small Zoa which has had 3 out of 5 polyps closed for a few days. Not sure if it’s related

Might it have been better to just turn the skimmer off for a while

I turned it off, but also figured I could essentially reverse the last week of what it took out. I’ve done it in the past and didn’t have issues, but it was smaller amounts usually. I really didn’t think I’d have any ammonia issue with a 15 month old tank with tons of live rock etc.

 

[Thomas Jedlicka]

i think ammonia would be a bigger influence than the nitrate on the corals behavior

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

i think ammonia would be a bigger influence than the nitrate on the corals behavior

When I emptied the skimmate I wasn’t expecting the ammonia spike. I don’t really think about ammonia much with such a large established tank.

update: I’m not sure if ammonia actually spiked. I noticed that the API Ammonia test says wait 5 minutes, and on day 2 after 5 minutes it looked like 0 or MAYBE .25, but after I left the vial sitting for 15 or 20 minutes it turned green and looked like .5+ same as first day. The first day I left it sitting for a while also.

Either way it’s at 0 now it seems.

I thought of something else it could be. I’m treating the fish for intestinal parasites right now with API General Cure mixed with Seachem Focus (binder). I notice when the pellets are falling I see a light trail of transparent chemical. General Cure is generally reed safe if dosed in food, not enough to treat whole DT. Just 1/8tsp with 1tbsp of food which I’ve only fed about half of the batch in 1 week so far. I wonder if that’s irritating them?

 

[Thomas Jedlicka]

I would struggle to believe that 1/8 tsp could make an impact such as that in a large DT. But my knowledge is more in fish

 

[MichaelReefer]

Might it have been better to just turn the skimmer off for a while

I think so as well. lol

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

I bought a Triton ICP Lab Test a while back and have been waiting for right time to use it. Maybe now’s the time

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Here is pic of the daisy’s. At least half of the polyps have been closed for almost 3 days now.

2nd pic is of a Zoa that is definitely closed more than normal.

remainder pics are healthy happy open polyps of other corals.

Should I be worried?

please excuse diatom battle I’m dealing with. (Any feedback there is also appreciated lol.) 15 month old 300g tank. These just popped up when I finally beat my GHA and turf algae battles. The diatoms seem to be taking the space those used to occupy.

 

[Tavero]

I bought a Triton ICP Lab Test a while back and have been waiting for right time to use it. Maybe now’s the time

You probably won't see anything with icp oes. The skimmate contains a lot of dissolved organics and bacteria which aren't covered with that test. My hunch is a bacterial infection. The skimmer cup is a breeding ground for all sorts of nasties.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

I would struggle to believe that 1/8 tsp could make an impact such as that in a large DT. But my knowledge is more in fish

Thank you. I figured that myself also.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

You probably won't see anything with icp oes. The skimmate contains a lot of dissolved organics and bacteria which aren't covered with that test. My hunch is a bacterial infection.

Interesting. Does this solve itself or do I need to do something?

 

[Tavero]

Interesting. Does this solve itself or do I need to do something?

Sometimes it solves itself. More often it doesn't. I am battling a bacterial infection for 5 months now, which has killed over 100 polyps on around 10 Zoa frags. Some melted completely.
I'm slowly getting it under control but it is a tedious battle.

Edit:
I don't know about the clovers but my zoas looked same as yours. A bit unhappy and half open. Each week they looked worse until they were closed completely or werent able to close or open anymore (no movement). Then they melted in a few days.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

i think ammonia would be a bigger influence than the nitrate on the corals behavior

Ammonia is literally food for coral and won't have any negative effects on them at such a low level.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Sometimes it solves itself. More often it doesn't. I am battling a bacterial infection for 5 months now, which has killed over 100 polyps on around 10 Zoa frags. Some melted completely.
I'm slowly getting it under control but it is a tedious battle.

Edit:
I don't know about the clovers but my zoas looked same as yours. A bit unhappy and half open. Each week they looked worse until they were closed completely or werent able to close or open anymore (no movement). Then they melted in a few days.

So what are you doing to beat it?

 

[Tavero]

So what are you doing to beat it?

No idea which one of my tratment was sucessful or if its a combination.

Sodium ascorbate dosing 5 mg/l per day (half of the dose in the morning half evening)

Maxspect Nano Tech clear cubes

ReefHD flux

Chemiclean (started just a few days ago though)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

When I emptied the skimmate I wasn’t expecting the ammonia spike. I don’t really think about ammonia much with such a large established tank.

update: I’m not sure if ammonia actually spiked. I noticed that the API Ammonia test says wait 5 minutes, and on day 2 after 5 minutes it looked like 0 or MAYBE .25, but after I left the vial sitting for 15 or 20 minutes it turned green and looked like .5+ same as first day. The first day I left it sitting for a while also.

Either way it’s at 0 now it seems.

I thought of something else it could be. I’m treating the fish for intestinal parasites right now with API General Cure mixed with Seachem Focus (binder). I notice when the pellets are falling I see a light trail of transparent chemical. General Cure is generally reed safe if dosed in food, not enough to treat whole DT. Just 1/8tsp with 1tbsp of food which I’ve only fed about half of the batch in 1 week so far. I wonder if that’s irritating them?

Just some general observations:

Skimmate that has been sitting in cups for more than a day or so are FULL of bacteria. Most are not pathogenic, but some could be for corals. That said, I think we've all had cases where skimmate got back into tanks accidentally.

An ICP test is only going to tell you if the elemental composition of the water is out of balance. Since the skimmate came from the tank and returned to the tank, it won't show anything on ICP. Things that ICP are good for are long term analysis of changes in inorganic salts, build up of heavy metals, etc. They do not tell you anything about the form the elements are in, especially organic compounds.

The fact that your house smelled like hydrogen sulfide afterwards is concerning. This was due to the production of sulfide by the bacteria in the skimmate, but that compound is very toxic to aquatic life. Aeration does oxidize it to sulfate fairly quickly though.

General Cure is Praziquantel and Metronidazole. Undiluted, both can be irritants to soft corals. Also, your 1/8 tsp GC to 1/8 tsp food is way too high of a dose. Oral dose metronidazole is 0.5% to 1% by weight in food. Praziquantel is dosed at 50mg/kg of fish weight. Here is an article I wrote on dosing medicated foods (we also have a calculator here in the fish disease forum).

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Just some general observations:

Skimmate that has been sitting in cups for more than a day or so are FULL of bacteria. Most are not pathogenic, but some could be for corals. That said, I think we've all had cases where skimmate got back into tanks accidentally.

An ICP test is only going to tell you if the elemental composition of the water is out of balance. Since the skimmate came from the tank and returned to the tank, it won't show anything on ICP. Things that ICP are good for are long term analysis of changes in inorganic salts, build up of heavy metals, etc. They do not tell you anything about the form the elements are in, especially organic compounds.

The fact that your house smelled like hydrogen sulfide afterwards is concerning. This was due to the production of sulfide by the bacteria in the skimmate, but that compound is very toxic to aquatic life. Aeration does oxidize it to sulfate fairly quickly though.

General Cure is Praziquantel and Metronidazole. Undiluted, both can be irritants to soft corals. Also, your 1/8 tsp GC to 1/8 tsp food is way too high of a dose. Oral dose metronidazole is 0.5% to 1% by weight in food. Praziquantel is dosed at 50mg/kg of fish weight. Here is an article I wrote on dosing medicated foods (we also have a calculator here in the fish disease forum).

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

It was 1/8 teaspoon GC to 1 Tablespoon of pellets.

So in general if it’s been 4 days and the daisy polyps are slightly more opened now. Seem to be improving. Probably ok I suppose?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It was 1/8 teaspoon GC to 1 Tablespoon of pellets.

So in general if it’s been 4 days and the daisy polyps are slightly more opened now. Seem to be improving. Probably ok I suppose?

I'd say so - tough to say for certain, but praziquantel breaks down in aquariums in less than a day. I don't know how long metronidazole persists, but the polyps opening more is a good sign.

Jay