Poor sps polyp extension? You be the judge.

[TK_KW]

#reefsquad
Which of these two do you believe could be causing this? Coincidentally after adding the regal I noticed, but at the same time my phos were also high. I've been having poor poylp extension for almost all my sps. For months now. Parameters are in check, for the most part. My p04 is constantly high and it seems impossible to get it down. Cut feeding back. Turned my scrubber back on. But seems tot stay steady where it's at.

Alk 8.6

Cal 490

Phosphate .14

Nitrate 6.1

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I'd almost bet it's the angel, I had the same situation with my flame but I never saw him picking at them... so I bought a 4k camera and literally the first day I was watching the tank I saw him ho around to all the acros picking on them, like one after another, then back to the first one. now many months later polyps are extended like they are use to it. So maybe stick with it and give it time, but my flame angel has also pecked flesh off some acros.

And because .14 is not high p04 with 6.1 nitrates, it's elevated above my range but not high enough to cause polyp issues, I'd think it would turn brown if phosphates are messing with it.

 

[Reefahholic]

I’m don’t think it’s either of those. Honestly, PO4 at .14 ppm isn’t that high and that’s actually a good number to be at. .03 is overrated IMO.

If you wanted to do a 100:1 ratio for every .01 P you will need 1 N. That seems to work for a lot folks including me. So maybe bring the NO3 up to 14 or PO4 down to .06 if you want to keep a good ratio. I think the problem is more likely a chemistry issue rather than a nutrient issue. Have you thought about sending out a quality ICP test just to see where all the elements are?

There could be many other factors, but typically chemistry, lighting, and flow issues seem to be the most common or too much equipment/chemicals running that really serve no purpose. Best of luck!

 

[TK_KW]

I’m don’t think it’s either of those. Honestly, PO4 at .14 ppm isn’t that high and that’s actually a good number to be at. .03 is overrated IMO.







If you wanted to do a 100:1 ratio for every .01 P you will need 1 N. That seems to work for a lot folks including me. So maybe bring the NO3 up to 14 or PO4 down to .06 if you want to keep a good ratio. I think the problem is more likely a chemistry issue rather than a nutrient issue. Have you thought about sending out a quality ICP test just to see where all the elements are?







There could be many other factors, but typically chemistry, lighting, and flow issues seem to be the most common or too much equipment/chemicals running that really serve no purpose. Best ofI did

I sent out a icp today. I'll report back with results later on and see what happens

icp test. luck!

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I sent out a icp today. I'll report back with results later on and see what happens

What icp did you use?

 

[TK_KW]

What icp did you use?

I.c.p analysis

 

[chipchipbro]

High PO4 is not the cause of poor polyp extension.
I can 100% count that out as a reason for poor polyp extension.

My PE is good with even 0.35 PO4 tbh.

So if its not the angel, you gotta look out for other reasons. (poor flow, lighting)

 

[i cant think]

#reefsquad
Which of these two do you believe could be causing this? Coincidentally after adding the regal I noticed, but at the same time my phos were also high. I've been having poor poylp extension for almost all my sps. For months now. Parameters are in check, for the most part. My p04 is constantly high and it seems impossible to get it down. Cut feeding back. Turned my scrubber back on. But seems tot stay steady where it's at.

Alk 8.6

Cal 490

Phosphate .14

Nitrate 6.1

Eventhough the Angel may not nip the coral I’ve found in tanks where coral know there’s a predator around, they tend to stay closed and not open as much.

 

[Koigula]

It is regal angel fish. I stay away from discussions about absolute best parameters. If you did not change parameters or husbandry methods, I would not over think it.



He recaptured and polyp extension improved. I have Burgress Butterfly. Perhaps he nips but I do not care. I think he ate eagle eye zoas only.

 

[TK_KW]

High PO4 is not the cause of poor polyp extension.







I can 100% count that out as a reason for poor polyp extension.















My PE is good with even 0.35 PO4 tbh.















So if its not the angel, you gotta look out for other reasons.





(poor flow, ighting)

High PO4 is not the cause of poor polyp extension.
I can 100% count that out as a reason for poor polyp extension.

My PE is good with even 0.35 PO4 tbh.

So if its not the angel, you gotta look out for other reasons. (poor flow, lighting)

I have three Wav's running, If i up the flow any further i have Euphyllia bailing. And four Skys with 2 T5s. Par is good, running AB+.

 

[TK_KW]

It is regal angel fish. I stay away from discussions about absolute best parameters. If you did not change parameters or husbandry methods, I would not over think it.



He recaptured and polyp extension improved. I have Burgress Butterfly. Perhaps he nips but I do not care. I think he ate eagle eye zoas only.

Might be time to catch him, But i love the patterning

 

[Koigula]

I know you asked about nipping vs tank parameters, but I cringe at these threads about chasing vague single parameters as if they are correlated. It just will not work.

SPS are especially tough in that they have immediate stress reactions and delayed stress reactions. It is really the art of giving them what they need and a few gentle corrections along the way and living with decisions. If conditions are bad, just leave it and gently correct of a month or more.



Generally, if you have defined lighting, defined dosing, and feeding schedule for 3-6 months, things start to take off. If you have been adding fishing, changing additives, adding fish etc it is tough to tell. A few delicate SPS can still bleach and come back though. Heat stress on shipping can even be 1 week to 1 month to show up.

I have setbacks and cannot tell cause and effect easily. When I get success, it is when I change nothing and mostly add nothing other than perhaps trusted frag vendor. I see people make tanks into nuclear reactors. I just look at every failure point and question it. Right now, I am VERY basic and alkalinity demand is increasing with observable growth. Only critical operation I trust Apex with is kalk doser and shuran heater.

150 gallon Reef Savvy Tank 4 foot by 28 x 28 bare bottom on starboard
4x MP40s full blast with random flow
ATI 8x54W T5s - Channel 1- 2x True Actinic 10 hrs x 75%, Channel 2 - 4 x ATI Blue Plus, 2X Aqua Special up to 75%
Kalk - Avast K1 with dosing 100 cc every 20 minute at night
LifeReef CaRx - Carbon Doser - Komer Pump - 50 cc min, 1 bubble every 10 sec
Lifereef 36" Mazzei - 2500 gph Danner Max - Wet Skim
Tunze Autotop off / 24 hrs on
5% active water change pulling out detritus weekly or biweekly

Feed only frozen food varieties, krill, mysis, larrys prepared, Nori varieties, very little pellets, some coral foods.

Parameters
Temp 77F
Salinity 1.0026 sg
Alkalinity 150-160 ppm as CaCo3 Hanna at 730pm every other day
Calcium 425 ppm - monthly
Magnesium 1350 - monthly
Potassium - 425 ppm monthly
Phosphate - 0.03 - 0.15Hanna ULR Weekly
Nitrate 5 to 15 Hanna

There are no secrets here!

 

[Williamson’s Reef]

My hippo tang likes to taste my acros long polyps out of the ends. And he’s fat and well fed. He does it right in front of me. Drives me nuts.

 

[Reefahholic]

I.c.p analysis

I’m not a fan of that test. The results can’t be trusted. I’ve seen a few guys almost crash their tanks off of their poor recommendations.

Good thing is that it’s dirt cheap so you didn’t loose much.

Grab yourself a OCEAMO, ATI, or Triton.

 

[Reefahholic]

High PO4 is not the cause of poor polyp extension.
I can 100% count that out as a reason for poor polyp extension.

My PE is good with even 0.35 PO4 tbh.

So if its not the angel, you gotta look out for other reasons. (poor flow, lighting)

Agreed.

PO4 can be fairly high and PE is great. I’ve personally seen PE retract at low or depleted PO4 levels, but every system is different. Some established systems test depleted with our hobby grade kits, but ICP shows low levels of PO4, but the corals are still able to thrive with good PE from residuals that they’ve become accustomed to over several months/ years. Low PO4 in a 5 year system is completely different than a 1 year system.

 

[Koigula]

I have misfortune of having a degree in chemistry and working in industry. ICP was at one time considered fast and dirty, meaning it would be used as a scan for metals at superfund sites. The hits would then be quantified by atomic absorption method. I would view it as vastly improved method, but you are spending 50 bucks on more than dozen elements. I run Reef Crystals salts from chewy.com sales and it tells me my lithium is a bit high. I should buy imported German salts to fix this problem. Why is it a problem though? Perhaps schooling fish that can't think for themselves prefer to be doped up. The phosphate results are including organics so bit higher.

I think about my grandfather that would grow climbing roses, and he would make his own rose bed compost. It was truly nasty. He tested nothing and decided what he would compost as hobbyist and grocery store owner. It was fish heads, lettuce, coffee grinds, eggs shells, oakleaves, last year's soil mixed in. He would look at roses and make a guess as to what worked. He was accused of having fake plastic roses. Somehow, he knew something in process.

 

[TK_KW]

I’m not a fan of that test. The results can’t be trusted. I’ve seen a few guys almost crash their tanks off of their poor recommendations.







Good thing is that it’s dirt cheap so you didn’t loose much.iton.

I’m not a fan of that test. The results can’t be trusted. I’ve seen a few guys almost crash their tanks off of their poor recommendations.

Good thing is that it’s dirt cheap so you didn’t loose much.

Grab yourself a OCEAMO, ATI, or Triton.

Funny that you say your not a fan, I think I know know why. First off, both my tank sample, and my Rodi sample came back with the same values. Like are these test's done in a garage, lol. This is Ludacris.

 

[TK_KW]

Also, just tested system.

1.025
no3- 9
po4- .18
Cal- 496
Alk- 7.9
Mag- 1380

All using hanna

Also my trusty fish trap I made. I was able to get the angel out within a half hour. Transferred him to one of my other tanks. Now we wait and see if polyp extension improves.

 

[Reefahholic]

Funny that you say your not a fan, I think I know know why. First off, both my tank sample, and my Rodi sample came back with the same values. Like are these test's done in a garage, lol. This is Ludacris.

I’ve seen far too many of those tests come back extremely inaccurate.

Try ATI or OCEAMO OES on your next purchase. Those results are fairly trustworthy. None of them are perfect, but I’ve been using ATI for almost 11 months now with pretty good results. I’m transitioning to OCEAMO on the next analysis and they seem to be pretty accurate from what I’ve seen so far. I’d trust them over ATI.