Possible lyngbya help needed

[Llorgon]

Really sounds like you've got a handle on it. If you don't mind one more suggestion... don't harvest/remove any algae from the refugium while you're fighting this; let it become the nutrient absorber til the dt is lookin nice; then tackle the sump...

Good idea. I was removing some as it was blocking the flow to the return chamber. I probably got a big carried away.

 

[Llorgon]

While the tank is looking better than it was, the fact that corals aren't doing great and it still looks like crap is really getting to me.

I did another water change over the weekend. I have been making sure to match the alk of the new water to the tank water. During the water change I vacuumed more of the sand and sucked out as much algae as I could.

I also dipped all the euphyllia except the big one in h2o2 for 30s. Got rid of the algae, but mostly all the frags are still unhappy. This morning I noticed one head on my large euphyllia colony had completely died overnight.

I missed 2 days of rock scrubbing as things got busy and I can see the algae has come back significantly. So I guess the daily scrubbing is still needed.

I noticed one hermit has already killed on of the new astrea snails and is wearing it's shell even though I got a bunch of extra shells for them. I still haven't seen the emerald crab or turbo snail since they went in the tank. I assume the turbo snail has died. I found some tuxedo urchins, but I don't want to get one if, like the turbo won't eat the algae and have it die.

I'm going to try and rent a par meter from the little LFS just so I can get an accurate reading and rule out any lighting issues.

Other than that, I guess I stay the course and hope I don't lose all my euphyllia too...

 

[ggNoRe]

I know hydrogen peroxide is often recommended in this forums but my personal experience is that stuff is HARSH! My tank is getting better fairly quickly so far with no coral casualties with the combo of urchins, algae eating fish, daily toothbrushing and turkey basting (only small portions like 3 rocks at a time to not shock the system), and getting my nutrients down and stabilized ( phosphates went fom .9 to .1 nitrates went from 50 to 10 over 3 months time) with Rowaphos and carbon dosing combo.

I also dosed Flux RX (fluconazole) but not sure if it made any difference. Attached is before and after pics.

 

[Llorgon]

I know hydrogen peroxide is often recommended in this forums but my personal experience is that stuff is HARSH! My tank is getting better fairly quickly so far with no coral casualties with the combo of urchins, algae eating fish, daily toothbrushing and turkey basting (only small portions like 3 rocks at a time to not shock the system), and getting my nutrients down and stabilized ( phosphates went fom .9 to .1 nitrates went from 50 to 10 over 3 months time) with Rowaphos and carbon dosing combo.

I also dosed Flux RX (fluconazole) but not sure if it made any difference. Attached is before and after pics.

My test euphyllia came around after a few days. I have a feeling most were too far gone and probably won't bounce back.

My nutrients are low and have been for awhile now. Too low actually, 0 and 0.01ppm. I'm going to try upping the feedings and see if that gets them up a bit.

I don't have the urchin, but I have 2 tangs which have been in the tank for quite awhile, before the issues started.

I tried flux Rx as well. Not sure if it did any good either.

 

[djf91]

If it is Lyngbya, maybe a harsher antibiotic would do the trick. One person in this thread sounds very sure of Azithromycin on Lyngbya.

Most Comprehensive Lyngbya Treatment Research for Infected Reef Tanks

What can I say about Lyngbya that hasn't been said about Osama Bin Laden? I have scoured the internet and forums alike trying to find a proven reef tank treatment for Lyngbya, and was surprised that there's no consensus on how to kill this reef tank cyanobacterial terrorist that wears hair...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[paintman]

Keep doing what your doing.This takes time. Are you using a power filter? If you are the pad should look almost black with crud if your running it overnight. The other thing I used was Aquaforest Life Source to help replenish some of the bacteria that the power filter wil inadvertantly pull out. STOP WASTING YOUR MONEY WITH THE CUC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Llorgon]

If it is Lyngbya, maybe a harsher antibiotic would do the trick. One person in this thread sounds very sure of Azithromycin on Lyngbya.

Most Comprehensive Lyngbya Treatment Research for Infected Reef Tanks

What can I say about Lyngbya that hasn't been said about Osama Bin Laden? I have scoured the internet and forums alike trying to find a proven reef tank treatment for Lyngbya, and was surprised that there's no consensus on how to kill this reef tank cyanobacterial terrorist that wears hair...

www.reef2reef.com

I've seen that thread. I looked into it, but I would have to get a subscription for that here in Canada.

Keep doing what your doing.This takes time. Are you using a power filter? If you are the pad should look almost black with crud if your running it overnight. The other thing I used was Aquaforest Life Source to help replenish some of the bacteria that the power filter wil inadvertantly pull out. STOP WASTING YOUR MONEY WITH THE CUC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No power filter, but the filter floss I have setup in the sump is completely clogged every day. I've been going through filter floss like crazy

 

[djf91]

The Lyngbya (pretty positive at this point that it’s Lyngbya) I have in my tank continues to come back. I’m going to try to bring nutrients up a bit from nitrate 5ppm and phosphate 0.01 ppm. I’m seriously considering a round of Azithromycin at this point, as my weekly scrubbings for the past 2 months don’t seem to be making much progress.

 

[Llorgon]

The Lyngbya (pretty positive at this point that it’s Lyngbya) I have in my tank continues to come back. I’m going to try to bring nutrients up a bit from nitrate 5ppm and phosphate 0.01 ppm. I’m seriously considering a round of Azithromycin at this point, as my weekly scrubbings for the past 2 months don’t seem to be making much progress.

From what I have found so far, when my nutrients were 5 and 0.1ppm it was incredibly hard to pull the algae off or scrub it off. When nutrients dropped it was much easier, but either way it comes back. I am also going to try the higher nutrients.

Getting the Azithromycin is a prescription only thing in Canada, so I probably won't be going that route.

I went to my little LFS store to talk with them about all my issues and they went that's weird. I would take it all down and just restart.

so here's something interesting. For the last few days I have been feeding some pellets in the morning and frozen at night. I grab a small pinch of pellets, hold them under the water and let the powerheads blow them around and the fish eat them.

Since that is the only change recently, it would seem they make my skimmer go nuts! Like overflowing over the sides of the sump nuts. Even when set to the lowest it will go, it's still overflowing the skimmer cup within seconds.

Looking back, whenever I would go on vacation this summer I setup an auto feeder to go off once a day and every time I came back the skimmer had overflowed a crazy amount. It was weird, but I assumed it was just from me being away for a week and it overflowed. Seems like it may be the pellets?

I had to turn the skimmer off for the night, but it eventually has calmed down some. All corals are looking pretty rough over the weekend. I can see some tissue loss on 2 of the remaining SPS frags....

Corals have been pretty unhappy since the incident. Even my wife noticed it. I wonder if that caused the issues all along...

 

[djf91]

I found this interesting and maybe relevant to our discussion:

| Center for Aquatic and Invasive Plants | University of Florida, IFAS

“B.C. Cowell and P.S. Botts (1994) reported that, “The large monocultures of Lyngbya in northeastern Kings Bay appear to have resulted from a combination of chemical spraying for Hydrilla control in the early 1980s and Hurricane Elena (fall 1985 ) which forced saline water into Kings Bay and eliminated 92% of the Hydrilla (Florida Department of Natural Resources, 1985). The rapid colonization of these habitats by Lyngbya (see Beer et al., 1986) and subsequent development of large benthic and floating mats capable of modifying pH and HCO3_ [bicarbonate] concentrations probably prevented recolonization by Hydrilla and other macrophytes. During this study we noted a replacement of Hydrilla by Lyngbya at Station 18 where mechanical harvesting of the former opened more habitat for colonization by Lyngbya, and dense, benthic mats formed immediately. Once established, the benthic mat might augment high pH conditions favoring its growth, and thereby impede the re-establishment of Hydrilla (Beer et al., 1986) (p.34).

 

[djf91]

If I remember correctly @Dan_P and @ScottB talked in a past thread about how hair algae and Cyanobacteria might change the micro-environment around and underneath them on the substrate.

 

[Dan_P]

If I remember correctly @Dan_P and @ScottB talked in a past thread about how hair algae and Cyanobacteria might change the micro-environment around and underneath them on the substrate.

Still think this notion has merit, and why disrupting or removing these mats might be a good idea.

 

[djf91]

@Dan_P can you speak to what I posted above in the quote from the study. The pH change I understand but why does/ what effect does Lyngbya have on bicarbonate?

 

[Dan_P]

@Dan_P can you speak to what I posted above in the quote from the study. The pH change I understand but why does/ what effect does Lyngbya have on bicarbonate?

I assume they are related effects, that is, strong photosynthesis removes carbon dioxide drives pH up and coverts bicarbonate to carbonate. And it may have the enzyme that grabs CO2 directly from the bicarbonate ion. The high pH may also precipitate calcium and magnesium carbonates.

 

[djf91]

@Dan_P This could be why we see alkalinity levels drop without seeing any move in calcium in our tanks.

 

[djf91]

I’ll just update that I think I’m starting to turn the corner in my system. I was running nutrients around phosphate 0.01 and nitrate 5 for the past couple of months and yet the Lyngbya seemed to grow even faster between cleanings. At the same time my corraline continued to look pale and sickly and had died away on most of my rockwork.

I made the decision to increase feedings and I think nitrate and phosphate numbers are coming up. In addition to this, to boost corraline/ bacterial competitor growth, I started dosing strontium, iodide, and Purple up ( yes I know people consider this snake oil). Corraline growth seems to be reinvigorated on the rocks and back glass, and the color has returned to areas that had paled. Hair algae has increased too but I think corraline will smother in the coming weeks.

Hope this helps. The red cyano mats in my refugium have also started to shrink.

 

[Llorgon]

I’ll just update that I think I’m starting to turn the corner in my system. I was running nutrients around phosphate 0.01 and nitrate 5 for the past couple of months and yet the Lyngbya seemed to grow even faster between cleanings. At the same time my corraline continued to look pale and sickly and had died away on most of my rockwork.

I made the decision to increase feedings and I think nitrate and phosphate numbers are coming up. In addition to this, to boost corraline/ bacterial competitor growth, I started dosing strontium, iodide, and Purple up ( yes I know people consider this snake oil). Corraline growth seems to be reinvigorated on the rocks and back glass, and the color has returned to areas that had paled. Hair algae has increased too but I think corraline will smother in the coming weeks.

Hope this helps. The red cyano mats in my refugium have also started to shrink.

Great to hear!

I'm still fighting away. I ordered a microscope to get a positive ID and that should come tomorrow.

I've also started to raise my nutrients. Keeping them around 5 and 0.1 for the last couple of weeks. A few corals look better, but one of the euphyllia heads has started to bail out which really sucks.

I'm still pulling large amounts of algae daily, but it doesn't seem to be making much progress. I do see more and more bubble algae and what I think is turf algae coming up. Still little to no Coraline on the rocks.

 

[Llorgon]

I got a microscope and took some pictures. Anyone able to give this a positive ID?

 

[Rameez Akhtar]

I was just going through your post and I think I am having a similar thing going in my tank @Llorgon . For the last 1 year i am battling this.
I am posting a link for the thing I have. And funny enough i was also looking for a microscope just 10 minutes back!

I have put 3 samples in glass . One with flucanazole, Azithromycin and the third being the control.. later in the video i show my tank..and how the corals are affected...



Does that look similar to what you have?

My system is nearly 6 years old and strangely for me, my Nitrates are high around 40ppm and PO4 is 0.04ppm.
I also have a red cyano infestation in some of the walls of the aquarium.

 

[djf91]

I was just going through your post and I think I am having a similar thing going in my tank @Llorgon . For the last 1 year i am battling this.
I am posting a link for the thing I have. And funny enough i was also looking for a microscope just 10 minutes back!

I have put 3 samples in glass . One with flucanazole, Azithromycin and the third being the control.. later in the video i show my tank..and how the corals are affected...



Does that look similar to what you have?

My system is nearly 6 years old and strangely for me, my Nitrates are high around 40ppm and PO4 is 0.04ppm.
I also have a red cyano infestation in some of the walls of the aquarium.

Yep looks exactly like it. Beautiful tank btw.