Possible Velvet Outbreak

mjreefs

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Hi all, I’ve posted this upon the request of @4FordFamily in order to help future readers of this thread.

So currently these are the fish in my 240gal DT
5” Annularis Angelfish
5” Magnificent Foxface
4” Mustard Tang
4” PBT
4” Blue Tang
4” Purple Tang
3.5” HYT
3-3.5” Scribbled Angel
2.5”-3” Multicolor Angelfish
2.5”-3” False Percula

Total of 10 fish.

I also have a 50gal (45gal water volume) QT, with an overhead filter and a small powerhead. I quarantine all of my fish with 30 days of copper and 2 rounds of prazipro. All fish went through the QT process. However a year ago, there were sea urchins that were introduced to the DT. I noticed that there might be some disease that was carried but it only showed on the Mustard Tang (spots, scratching). Months have passed thinking I was safe. Suddenly, upon adding the multicolor and scribbled, velvet reared its ugly head. Here’s a list of symptoms that appeared in chronological order (earliest to latest):
1. The scribbled has powder sugar coating during the night (not noticeable during the day).
2. The PBT swimming against the flow of the current during the night (I have 2 small powerheads oxygenating the tank at night). PBT didn’t do this until recently.
3. The Mustard Tang occassionally swimming against the powerheads during the day.
4. Annularis is scratching as if something was irritating the gills.
5. Mustard and Annularis now has a fainter color than before.
6. It claimed the life of a False Perc yesterday.

Looks like it might claim some more. Good news is everyone’s still eating fine. However, I don’t think I have much time if I’m going to delay. I have a plan in place: FW dip then put it into my QT (I have no access to Acrivflavine, but I do have Paraguard). I initially planned to catch only the Scribbled, PT, HYT and multicolor given the size of the QT, but upon consultation with 4FordFamily, he suggested to try and rescue all. I’m going to go fishing tonight when the lights go out, but before I do, I’d like to ask some questions:
1. Which is better? A Paraguard dip or an FW dip?
2. I plan to ramp up my copper in the span of 3-4 days instead of ramping it up immediately since fish are still relatively fine. But hopefully after 48 hours, I’d reach the minimum therapeutic dose of 0.35mg/L (I have cupramine, btw; no way to get Coppersafe; i’ve also read about the minimum therapeutic dose from one of @Humblefish ’s replies in one of the threads). Would this be good?
3. Currently, the separation between the DT and QT is less than 10 ft. I have no way to move my QT (or even the space to acquire another one). How should I go about the fallow period and treatment, such that there would be no cross-contamination between the tanks?
4. How often should I change my water? I plan on doing 5gals, 3x a week spread over the week, for a total of 15 gallons per week. Extremely light feeding.
5. Should I worry about aggression in a cramped space? (Although I’ve seen tanks in Asian countries with extremely stocked like what they do with African cichlids [am I right with this one?])

Many thanks for the replies!
 
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4FordFamily

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Hi all, I’ve posted this upon the request of @4FordFamily in order to help future readers of this thread.

So currently these are the fish in my 240gal DT
5” Annularis Angelfish
5” Magnificent Foxface
4” Mustard Tang
4” PBT
4” Blue Tang
4” Purple Tang
3.5” HYT
3-3.5” Scribbled Angel
2.5”-3” Multicolor Angelfish
2.5”-3” False Percula

Total of 10 fish.

I also have a 50gal (45gal water volume) QT, with an overhead filter and a small powerhead. I quarantine all of my fish with 30 days of copper and 2 rounds of prazipro. All fish went through the QT process. However a year ago, there were sea urchins that were introduced to the DT. I noticed that there might be some disease that was carried but it only showed on the Mustard Tang (spots, scratching). Months have passed thinking I was safe. Suddenly, upon adding the multicolor and scribbled, velvet reared its ugly head. Here’s a list of symptoms that appeared in chronological order (earliest to latest):
1. The scribbled has powder sugar coating during the night (not noticeable during the day).
2. The PBT swimming against the flow of the current during the night (I have 2 small powerheads oxygenating the tank at night). PBT didn’t do this until recently.
3. The Mustard Tang occassionally swimming against the powerheads during the day.
4. Annularis is scratching as if something was irritating the gills.
5. Mustard and Annularis now has a fainter color than before.
6. It claimed the life of a False Perc yesterday.

Looks like it might claim some more. Good news is everyone’s still eating fine. However, I don’t think I have much time if I’m going to delay. I have a plan in place: FW dip then put it into my QT (I have no access to Acrivflavine, but I do have Paraguard). I initially planned to catch only the Scribbled, PT, HYT and multicolor given the size of the QT, but upon consultation with 4FordFamily, he suggested to try and rescue all. I’m going to go fishing tonight when the lights go out, but before I do, I’d like to ask some questions:
1. Which is better? A Paraguard dip or an FW dip?
2. I plan to ramp up my copper in the span of 3-4 days instead of ramping it up immediately since fish are still relatively fine. But hopefully after 48 hours, I’d reach the minimum therapeutic dose of 0.35mg/L (I have cupramine, btw; no way to get Coppersafe; i’ve also read about the minimum therapeutic dose from one of @Humblefish ’s replies in one of the threads). Would this be good?
3. Currently, the separation between the DT and QT is less than 10 ft. I have no way to move my QT (or even the space to acquire another one). How should I go about the fallow period and treatment, such that there would be no cross-contamination between the tanks?
4. How often should I change my water? I plan on doing 5gals, 3x a week spread over the week, for a total of 15 gallons per week. Extremely light feeding.
5. Should I worry about aggression in a cramped space? (Although I’ve seen tanks in Asian countries with extremely stocked like what they do with African cichlids [am I right with this one?])

Many thanks for the replies!
1) FW dip is fine, methelyne blue bath would give the gills some reprieve

2) Increase copper over a few hours velvet kills fast ramping slowly is not advisable. Just do several small doses.

.35 wont cut it with any copper, .5 for ionic copper such as cupramine and 2.0 for chelated copper such as copper power or coppersafe.

3)This is definitely not ideal, be sure not to cross contaminate and for best odds don’t have any air blowing between them

4)That works

5) Cramped space tends to reduce aggression most of the time in QT. You’ll also want to make sure you have a bubbler and a powerhead breaking the surface in the QT to aid with oxygen, particularly because your fish have velvet and their gills are badly damaged and worsening dramatically by the hour.
 
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mjreefs

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1) FW dip is fine, methelyne blue bath would give the gills some reprieve

2) Increase copper over a few hours velvet kills fast ramping slowly is not advisable. Just do several small doses.

.35 wont cut it with any copper, .5 for ionic copper such as cupramine and 2.0 for chelated copper such as copper power or coppersafe.

3)This is definitely not ideal, be sure not to cross contaminate and for best odds don’t have any air blowing between them

4)That works

5) Cramped space tends to reduce aggression most of the time in QT. You’ll also want to make sure you have a bubbler and a powerhead breaking the surface in the QT to aid with oxygen, particularly because your fish have velvet and their gills are badly damaged and worsening dramatically by the hour.
1. Alright, I’ll do an FW dip

3. Would turning off/tuning down the wavemakers from the main DT work? Currently there are no fans blowing in the direction from the QT to the DT, but there’s some wind going from the DT to the QT due to the fans. I could do 2 rounds of copper. One immediately now, and one when nearing the end of the fallow period of 76 days (probably around day 45-50 or so).

4. Forgot to ask, when you say feeding light, would feeding once a day consider as light? Or is it better to feed once every other day?

5. I have some air exchange due to my overhead filter plus a small,wavemaker pointed at the top to break the water surface.
 

4FordFamily

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1. Alright, I’ll do an FW dip

3. Would turning off/tuning down the wavemakers from the main DT work? Currently there are no fans blowing in the direction from the QT to the DT, but there’s some wind going from the DT to the QT due to the fans. I could do 2 rounds of copper. One immediately now, and one when nearing the end of the fallow period of 76 days (probably around day 45-50 or so).

4. Forgot to ask, when you say feeding light, would feeding once a day consider as light? Or is it better to feed once every other day?

5. I have some air exchange due to my overhead filter plus a small,wavemaker pointed at the top to break the water surface.
You want wavemakers you just don’t want them splashing particularly in the direction of the other tank. If you can block some of the wind or air.

I wouldn’t treat twice, you could also put up a barrier between the two for good measure.

Feeding light just means only what they consume and no more than once per day IMO. Low nori, no more than they can eat in 3 minutes.

I always advise a bubbler as well particularly with crammed QT and medications.
 
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mjreefs

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You want wavemakers you just don’t want them splashing particularly in the direction of the other tank. If you can block some of the wind or air.

I wouldn’t treat twice, you could also put up a barrier between the two for good measure.

Feeding light just means only what they consume and no more than once per day IMO. Low nori, no more than they can eat in 3 minutes.

I always advise a bubbler as well particularly with crammed QT and medications.
Alright, I think I have a bubbler somewhere, or if not, I could get one tomorrow. I plan to feed only pellets, probably one 40-60 pellets a day so that’s around 4-6 pellets per fish a day.
 
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4FordFamily

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Alright, I think I have a bubbler somewhere, or if not, I could get one tomorrow. I plan to feed only pellets, probably one 40-60 pellets a day so that’s around 4-6 pellets per fish a day.
I recommend healthier food offerings than pellets.
 

ngoodermuth

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If you don’t have methylene blue, and are planning to only do the freshwater dip... I’d consider starting an antibiotic with your copper, as a preventative. Secondary infections are extremely common with velvet. Humble recommends Kanaplex initially, and you can add furan-2 for broader spectrum if you observe signs of infection.
 

4FordFamily

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Alright, how about some homemade frozen seafood mix in vitamins? I'll feed 1/2 of my usual serving per day
That's what I do. I microwave and strain the liquids and then add vitamins. :)
 
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mjreefs

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So I started fishing for the past few hours and was able to transfer all fish into my quarantine tank. Fishing the annularis, scribbled angels and clown was a breeze, catching the multicolor was a pain. I added some cupramine and allowed an air pump and air hose to provide additional oxygen exchange (should do for the night, will find a better one tomorrow). I’ll give my tank a good 76+ days of fallow period and hope that the fish would survive the outbreak. Catching the fish is just 10% of the work, to make sure that the fish (90+% of them) would live through the next 2-3 months would be the real challenge. And here’s a pic of the PBT in FW dip, man talk about a very bad case (don’t worry he’s swimming fine in the QT, for now and hopefully for the next 2-3 months).
2C553E75-319B-40BA-BB3B-EE6CAECA8B10.jpeg


I’ll hopefully continually update this thread until their return to the DT. For now, some good night’s rest.
 

Frtdrmrose7

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So I started fishing for the past few hours and was able to transfer all fish into my quarantine tank. Fishing the annularis, scribbled angels and clown was a breeze, catching the multicolor was a pain. I added some cupramine and allowed an air pump and air hose to provide additional oxygen exchange (should do for the night, will find a better one tomorrow). I’ll give my tank a good 76+ days of fallow period and hope that the fish would survive the outbreak. Catching the fish is just 10% of the work, to make sure that the fish (90+% of them) would live through the next 2-3 months would be the real challenge. And here’s a pic of the PBT in FW dip, man talk about a very bad case (don’t worry he’s swimming fine in the QT, for now and hopefully for the next 2-3 months).
2C553E75-319B-40BA-BB3B-EE6CAECA8B10.jpeg


I’ll hopefully continually update this thread until their return to the DT. For now, some good night’s rest.
I think that could quite possibly be the worst velvet infestation I’ve ever seen on a living fish. Good luck! I’m hoping they all pull through.
 

ngoodermuth

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I think that could quite possibly be the worst velvet infestation I’ve ever seen on a living fish. Good luck! I’m hoping they all pull through.
I agree, forget what I said about just the Kanaplex to start... I would go straight to both antibiotics. I can already some areas of infection there...
 
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mjreefs

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I agree, forget what I said about just the Kanaplex to start... I would go straight to both antibiotics. I can already some areas of infection there...
Yep looks like it, woke up today and found the powder blue has red sores in his tail and dorsal fin. Would start later but need to get the bubbler asap.
 
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mjreefs

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Oh yes, how about metroplex? Should I add it into the mix?
 
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Just an update, it’s been 12 hours and I’ve raised my copper to around 0.2-0.25mg/L. Looking to increase it to 0.35 in the next 12 hours, then reach 0.5 before the end of 48 hours.

@4FordFamily is it alright for me to feed a little heavier prior to water changes? Since I’m going to dose the antibacterial trifecta as suggested by @ngoodermuth and seconded by @Frtdrmrose7 , I’m just worried about the possible ammonia spike it might bring to the table. And how do you feed nori? Soak it in garlic guard?
 
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mjreefs

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Update: checked water today, it seems very cloudy. Is this a result of dosing antibiotics and a heavily-stocked tank?
 
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