Praziquantel

[HotRocks]

I have a 70 gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump that i'm afraid I'm going to have to dose with prazipro. I found what appears to be a skin fluke on my yellow watchman goby. I'm trying to catch him to do a dip and confirm, but since my reef has been contaminated I think I'm going to treat with prazipro just to be safe.

I've been reading through a bunch of threads on this and I think I have the method figured out.

1: large water change prior to treatment. 20-25%?
2: turn off carbon reactor
3:remove skimmer cup, but let skimmer run to aerate tank
4:power head or return pump at surface for more aeration
5:dose
6: 20-25% water change 7 days after dosing
8: second dose 8 days later based on marine parasite calculator
9: water change and media back online after 24-48 hours

The problem is I'm leaving for several days two days after the second dose if I do the first dose tomorrow. I'll probably have to do my water change after the second dose 24 hrs apart. That should be a sufficient time for the second dose to take effect.

Does this plan look right?

You are fine to do the water change in between doses anytime 24hrs after dose 1 up to any time right before 2nd dose.

No need for water change before dose 1 or after dose 2, just the single change in between.

All of your other items you listed are correct. You can skim between doses after 24hrs if you so desire. Skimmer will go crazy for a few days though and probably need adjustment. Also watch for foam in sump when letting skimmer run without cup which is necessary for oxygenation IMO.

 

[skijumpersc]

You are fine to do the water change in between doses anytime 24hrs after dose 1 up to any time right before 2nd dose.

No need for water change before dose 1 or after dose 2, just the single change in between.

All of your other items you listed are correct. You can skim between doses after 24hrs if you so desire. Skimmer will go crazy for a few days though and probably need adjustment. Also watch for foam in sump when letting skimmer run without cup which is necessary for oxygenation IMO.

ok cool. Is it dumb to do this without getting a 100% id on the flukes? I've got a fish trap in right now, but if he doesn't fall for that Im not getting him without tearing the tank apart completely. He's acting normal and has a good appetite still and none of the other fish seem effected yet

 

[HotRocks]

ok cool. Is it dumb to do this without getting a 100% id on the flukes? I've got a fish trap in right now, but if he doesn't fall for that Im not getting him without tearing the tank apart completely. He's acting normal and has a good appetite still and none of the other fish seem effected yet

I wouldn’t do it unless I was pretty sure that flukes were present. Although prazi is a reef safe medication and I have never had issues with it at all in a DT.

 

[skijumpersc]

I wouldn’t do it unless I was pretty sure that flukes were present. Although prazi is a reef safe medication and I have never had issues with it at all in a DT.

It looks a lot like this

its probably 1/8" long and attached at one end. Its about the same color as well.

 

[skijumpersc]

You are fine to do the water change in between doses anytime 24hrs after dose 1 up to any time right before 2nd dose.

No need for water change before dose 1 or after dose 2, just the single change in between.

All of your other items you listed are correct. You can skim between doses after 24hrs if you so desire. Skimmer will go crazy for a few days though and probably need adjustment. Also watch for foam in sump when letting skimmer run without cup which is necessary for oxygenation IMO.

So the last thing I’m trying to figure out is my dose. I measured my water volume based on the water height and the inner width and length of the tank and sump and got 68 gallons. The problem is I’m going to have to estimate the volume displaced by my live rock and pumps.

Am I better off estimating on the high side or low side? If I estimate the live rock to be more than it is I risk not dosing strong enough. If i go the other way I risk an overdose. In your experience which possible outcome is more costly/ likely?

From what I understand the necessary dosage is 20g/ml and the dosage prazipro recommends is actually 25g/ml. If this is the case I should err on the low side as i should still have a sufficient dose

 

[HotRocks]

So the last thing I’m trying to figure out is my dose. I measured my water volume based on the water height and the inner width and length of the tank and sump and got 68 gallons. The problem is I’m going to have to estimate the volume displaced by my live rock and pumps.

Am I better off estimating on the high side or low side? If I estimate the live rock to be more than it is I risk not dosing strong enough. If i go the other way I risk an overdose. In your experience which possible outcome is more costly/ likely?

From what I understand the necessary dosage is 20g/ml and the dosage prazipro recommends is actually 25g/ml. If this is the case I should err on the low side as i should still have a sufficient dose

I always dose prazi per the gallons and don’t subtract for displacement. It’s relatively safe to do so Imo.

 

[skijumpersc]

I always dose prazi per the gallons and don’t subtract for displacement. It’s relatively safe to do so Imo.

I did the first dose last night and so far everything is looking really good. The skimmer cup is off, but its barely overflowing (I turned down the air as far as I could) all the fish still have their appetites, and even the bristle worms are still alive. My anemone has gone walkabout, but thats really the only change I've seen.

 

[HotRocks]

I did the first dose last night and so far everything is looking really good. The skimmer cup is off, but its barely overflowing (I turned down the air as far as I could) all the fish still have their appetites, and even the bristle worms are still alive. My anemone has gone walkabout, but thats really the only change I've seen.

Yeah, I have used it in displays more than once without any negative impact. Glad to hear it’s going well!

 

[skijumpersc]

Yeah, I have used it in displays more than once without any negative impact. Glad to hear it’s going well!

even the little feather dusters living in my LR survived, I guess theres no way to tell if it was effective or not without finding living flukes. I dosed on the heavy side of my estimate

 

[Reefkeeper12]

Praziquantel (de-wormer)

What It Treats – Flukes (Monogeneans), Black Ich (Turbellarians), and intestinal worms.

How To Treat – There are a few aquarium products which contain praziquantel: Prazipro, API General Cure and Thomas Labs Fish Tapes. Follow the dosing instructions for whatever product you are using. If using straight powder praziquantel powder, dose @ 2.5 mg/L (or 9.5 mg/gal). Powder praziquantel is not easily water soluable and it often helps to mix your dose in a small amount of ethyl alcohol or even common vodka before dosing your tank.

With prazi dose once, wait about a week, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. (Or use this treatment calendar to determine when is the best time to add the second dose.) The reason for the second dose is to eradicate the “next generation” of worms before they can lay eggs of their own. Because while Prazi does kill worms, it doesn’t eliminate any eggs they might leave behind.

If you are treating a known prazi sensitive species (e.g. wrasse), you can run carbon or perform a water change 24 hours after dosing in order to limit exposure time. While praziquantel does remain active in the water column for up to 72 hours, only 24 hours are needed for it to eradicate external worms. Don’t forget to still do the second round though!

Prazipro is generally considered reef safe, although it may kill any tube worms/feathers dusters you have. It may also eradicate bristle worms. If you have mass quantities of these, the resulting die-off can lead to an ammonia spike. After treatment is done, activated carbon may be used to remove any residuals (if you need to use a different medication next). This is important because the Oxybispropanol (solubilizing agent) Prazipro contains will sometimes cause a bacterial bloom (cloudy water) when mixed with other meds. If using a protein skimmer post-treatment, be advised that it will “over skim” for at least a week or so.

API General Cure contains both praziquantel and metronidazole, and is an effective substitute for using Prazipro. (Just don’t follow the 48 hour repeat dosage instructions; Redose 5-7 days later instead.) But where General Cure really shines is when soaked in food to treat both intestinal worms and internal parasites (flagellates). Both maladies share one classic symptom: White stringy feces. You can also food soak Thomas Labs Fish Tapes or just straight praziquantel powder; but be aware that prazi only treats intestinal worms. (You would need to food soak metronidazole for internal flagellates.) I recommend feeding the medicated food daily for 2-3 weeks, or until symptoms are no longer present. My formula for food soaking prazi (and metro) can be found below:

Using a shot glass:
1 scoop (~ 1/8 teaspoon) of medication
1 scoop Seachem Focus (this makes it reef safe)
1 tbsp food (preferably pellets or frozen food)
A pinch of Epsom salt to help expel dead worms/parasites
A few drops of saltwater or fish vitamins
Stir until a medicated food slurry has been achieved
Feed after soaking for 30 mins
Refrigerate or freeze any leftovers for future use

Pros – Reef safe, effective dewormer that is relatively gentle on most fish.

Cons/Side Effects – Mild appetite suppression, moderate oxygen depletion, wrasses are sensitive to overdosing. Prazi resistant worms (both external and internal) do exist, so sometimes an alternative treatment must be used instead. This includes hyposalinity or formalin (to treat external worms), and food soaking Fenbendazole to deal with prazi resistant intestinal worms.

Prazi pro saved my tank! I have a reef tank and my feather dusters were mostly fine after treatment. Prazi lowers PH so just make sure to keep up with that, prepare for algae on the glass and that’s about it.

 

[Goomba_BC]

With the meds being pulled off the shelves in Canada.
I have Prazipond plus that is at least 6 years old.
I had it from when I had fancy goldfish in a 80 gallon tank.
Even kept in the dark, dry and sealed.
Would it be ineffective? Basically expired?
I can't find the expiry date on the bottle.

 

[Humblefish]

With the meds being pulled off the shelves in Canada.
I have Prazipond plus that is at least 6 years old.
I had it from when I had fancy goldfish in a 80 gallon tank.
Even kept in the dark, dry and sealed.
Would it be ineffective? Basically expired?
I can't find the expiry date on the bottle.

This is the best answer I could find for you:

As a pharmacist i would use it on my own fish up to 2 years past the expiration date, as long as the cap was tighly sealed..moisture more than time is what breaks down the drug.

Source: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?132684-Expired-Praziquantel

 

[Goomba_BC]

This is the best answer I could find for you:


Source: https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?132684-Expired-Praziquantel

Thank you @Humblefish.

 

[MPS]

I'm currently dealing with an outbreak of flukes. I'm trying PraziPro because pulling the LR and corals is sure to cause more damage from stress. I was told to dose at 1/2 the recommended amount in order to keep the corals safe. I'm not seeing any change in the fishes' condition after 6 days. Do you agree with the 1/2 dose?

 

[Big G]

I've never heard of dosing 1/2 strength. Usually just dose as directed.

Praziquantel

Edit: this is older information, a new post is here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dosing-praziquantel-pzq.1105700/ Praziquantel (de-wormer) What It Treats – Flukes (Monogeneans), Black Ich (Turbellarians), and intestinal worms. How To Treat – There are a few aquarium products which...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[egwich]

I'm currently dealing with an outbreak of flukes. I'm trying PraziPro because pulling the LR and corals is sure to cause more damage from stress. I was told to dose at 1/2 the recommended amount in order to keep the corals safe. I'm not seeing any change in the fishes' condition after 6 days. Do you agree with the 1/2 dose?

I'd dose the recommended amount for 3-4 weeks. Six days won't get you anywhere because the fluke eggs will hatch after you're done dosing because the eggs aren't effected by Prazi. I had a nasty flukes infestation and it took me 6 weeks of double dosing to get rid of it.

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

+1^

 

[Reefkeeper12]

I've never heard of dosing 1/2 strength. Usually just dose as directed.

Praziquantel

Edit: this is older information, a new post is here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dosing-praziquantel-pzq.1105700/ Praziquantel (de-wormer) What It Treats – Flukes (Monogeneans), Black Ich (Turbellarians), and intestinal worms. How To Treat – There are a few aquarium products which...

www.reef2reef.com

Yeah dude if anything dose heavier than the recommended! Half dosing is literally the worst idea you could come up with.
Think about it, first off you 100% aren’t going to solve your problem with Doing half doses, it’s a waste of money, and it means you’re going to have to keep dosing prazi linger because you didn’t do it right the first time.

listen to me If you want to nip this in the bud,

dose 25% more prazi than recommended every 3 days for 12 days and do a 20-30% water change every time, turn off skimmer and remove carbon or any other filtration other than your filter floss during this time.

keep a lot of bacteria on hand to deal with spikes in nitrate/nitrite/ammonia.

afyer you are done treating flukes you need to treat with Kansplex for any secondary infections that flukes almost always cause.
If you notice your fish has an infection already you can dose prazi and kanaplex at the same time in your main tank. I have done it and it saved my tank.

you do this your flukes will be gone and your fish and coral will survive as long as they aren’t beyond saving already.

 

[MPS]

Yeah dude if anything dose heavier than the recommended! Half dosing is literally the worst idea you could come up with.
Think about it, first off you 100% aren’t going to solve your problem with Doing half doses, it’s a waste of money, and it means you’re going to have to keep dosing prazi linger because you didn’t do it right the first time.

listen to me If you want to nip this in the bud,

dose 25% more prazi than recommended every 3 days for 12 days and do a 20-30% water change every time, turn off skimmer and remove carbon or any other filtration other than your filter floss during this time.

keep a lot of bacteria on hand to deal with spikes in nitrate/nitrite/ammonia.

afyer you are done treating flukes you need to treat with Kansplex for any secondary infections that flukes almost always cause.
If you notice your fish has an infection already you can dose prazi and kanaplex at the same time in your main tank. I have done it and it saved my tank.

you do this your flukes will be gone and your fish and coral will survive as long as they aren’t beyond saving already.

Thanks for your input. I appreciate that you took time to offer your perspective. I’ll adjust my dosing.

 

[DTz]

is api general cure or metroplex a better medication as fish food?