Pre Quarantine Setup + Quarantine Steps.

[Poseidon Black Sea]

Hello,

Recently, I started my second tank. In my first tank, I had an ich and brook outbreak that wiped out almost all my fish. I still have a Foxface and a Coral Beauty in that system that survived and have shown no symptoms for about 3-4 months now.

Now, back to the topic—my second tank is ready for its first fish. My wife and I decided to go with a pair of Designer Clowns, and now comes the QT process. Since I don’t want any more diseases, we decided to quarantine (QT) everything from now on: corals, inverts, and, of course, fish.

I have watched a lot of videos and done some research, and I like the 80/20 QT process from BRS and Marine Collectors. This is what I think I’ll do, but I am still not 100% sure, so I’m asking for your help.

After receiving the fish, I’ll put them in a QT tank with some PVC for hiding, an airstone, and a heater (I haven’t decided yet if I’ll add a hang-on-the-back filter—more on this later). As a pre-QT, I’ll keep them for 72 hours in normal saltwater with Methylene Blue. Then, at the 3-day mark, I’ll do a 100% water change and start the actual QT process.

Here’s my plan:

1. I’ll do a 3-minute freshwater dip, followed by a 3-minute dip in half saltwater, half freshwater.
2. Then, I’ll add them to the QT tank, which will have 2.5ppm Copper (using Copper Power) and a dose of 200mg/10gal of Nitrofurazone.

I will monitor the copper level with a Hanna Checker and pre-mix approximately five water changes in advance to ensure the copper level remains consistent.

Afterward, I’ll wait three days and repeat the process until the fish are symptom-free for 14 days. If symptoms appear at any point, the clock will reset until they disappear.

In the videos, to treat for brook/uranema, Elliot uses formalin dips with 37% formalin at a dosage of 1ml/gallon of water for 35-45 minutes. I presume this is done in saltwater, not freshwater.

Once the QT process is complete, I’ll do a clean saltwater bath for the fish before adding them to the display tank.

After the pair of clowns, I’ll quarantine the Foxface and Coral Beauty from the other system and then leave that system fallow for 11 weeks.

Regarding the hang-on-the-back filter, if I do decide to use one, I will need to sterilize it every time I do the 100% water change, as I’ll be sterilizing the entire system. Since I’ll only use plastic balls for filtration, is the filter really necessary in that case?

Did I miss anything? Should i do the formalin dips? Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

---

Useful links:

• How to Quarantine and Steps to Knock Out Fish Disease (BRS)
• Identify and Eliminate Flukes (BRS)

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello,

Recently, I started my second tank. In my first tank, I had an ich and brook outbreak that wiped out almost all my fish. I still have a Foxface and a Coral Beauty in that system that survived and have shown no symptoms for about 3-4 months now.

Now, back to the topic—my second tank is ready for its first fish. My wife and I decided to go with a pair of Designer Clowns, and now comes the QT process. Since I don’t want any more diseases, we decided to quarantine (QT) everything from now on: corals, inverts, and, of course, fish.

I have watched a lot of videos and done some research, and I like the 80/20 QT process from BRS and Marine Collectors. This is what I think I’ll do, but I am still not 100% sure, so I’m asking for your help.

After receiving the fish, I’ll put them in a QT tank with some PVC for hiding, an airstone, and a heater (I haven’t decided yet if I’ll add a hang-on-the-back filter—more on this later). As a pre-QT, I’ll keep them for 72 hours in normal saltwater with Methylene Blue. Then, at the 3-day mark, I’ll do a 100% water change and start the actual QT process.

Here’s my plan:

1. I’ll do a 3-minute freshwater dip, followed by a 3-minute dip in half saltwater, half freshwater.
2. Then, I’ll add them to the QT tank, which will have 2.5ppm Copper (using Copper Power) and a dose of 200mg/10gal of Nitrofurazone.

I will monitor the copper level with a Hanna Checker and pre-mix approximately five water changes in advance to ensure the copper level remains consistent.

Afterward, I’ll wait three days and repeat the process until the fish are symptom-free for 14 days. If symptoms appear at any point, the clock will reset until they disappear.

In the videos, to treat for brook/uranema, Elliot uses formalin dips with 37% formalin at a dosage of 1ml/gallon of water for 35-45 minutes. I presume this is done in saltwater, not freshwater.

Once the QT process is complete, I’ll do a clean saltwater bath for the fish before adding them to the display tank.

After the pair of clowns, I’ll quarantine the Foxface and Coral Beauty from the other system and then leave that system fallow for 11 weeks.

Regarding the hang-on-the-back filter, if I do decide to use one, I will need to sterilize it every time I do the 100% water change, as I’ll be sterilizing the entire system. Since I’ll only use plastic balls for filtration, is the filter really necessary in that case?

Did I miss anything? Should i do the formalin dips? Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

---

Useful links:

• How to Quarantine and Steps to Knock Out Fish Disease (BRS)
• Identify and Eliminate Flukes (BRS)

Skip the methylene and go to copperpower at 2.25 for 30 days and monitor with Hanna brand copper test kit. Do water change at the end and apply a dose of prazi at 85% of bottle recommendations for 8 days and do a water change and apply one more dose lasting 8 days. Add aeration using air stone with both treatments as it reduces appetite and oxygen

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello,

Recently, I started my second tank. In my first tank, I had an ich and brook outbreak that wiped out almost all my fish. I still have a Foxface and a Coral Beauty in that system that survived and have shown no symptoms for about 3-4 months now.

Now, back to the topic—my second tank is ready for its first fish. My wife and I decided to go with a pair of Designer Clowns, and now comes the QT process. Since I don’t want any more diseases, we decided to quarantine (QT) everything from now on: corals, inverts, and, of course, fish.

I have watched a lot of videos and done some research, and I like the 80/20 QT process from BRS and Marine Collectors. This is what I think I’ll do, but I am still not 100% sure, so I’m asking for your help.

After receiving the fish, I’ll put them in a QT tank with some PVC for hiding, an airstone, and a heater (I haven’t decided yet if I’ll add a hang-on-the-back filter—more on this later). As a pre-QT, I’ll keep them for 72 hours in normal saltwater with Methylene Blue. Then, at the 3-day mark, I’ll do a 100% water change and start the actual QT process.

Here’s my plan:

1. I’ll do a 3-minute freshwater dip, followed by a 3-minute dip in half saltwater, half freshwater.
2. Then, I’ll add them to the QT tank, which will have 2.5ppm Copper (using Copper Power) and a dose of 200mg/10gal of Nitrofurazone.

I will monitor the copper level with a Hanna Checker and pre-mix approximately five water changes in advance to ensure the copper level remains consistent.

Afterward, I’ll wait three days and repeat the process until the fish are symptom-free for 14 days. If symptoms appear at any point, the clock will reset until they disappear.

In the videos, to treat for brook/uranema, Elliot uses formalin dips with 37% formalin at a dosage of 1ml/gallon of water for 35-45 minutes. I presume this is done in saltwater, not freshwater.

Once the QT process is complete, I’ll do a clean saltwater bath for the fish before adding them to the display tank.

After the pair of clowns, I’ll quarantine the Foxface and Coral Beauty from the other system and then leave that system fallow for 11 weeks.

Regarding the hang-on-the-back filter, if I do decide to use one, I will need to sterilize it every time I do the 100% water change, as I’ll be sterilizing the entire system. Since I’ll only use plastic balls for filtration, is the filter really necessary in that case?

Did I miss anything? Should i do the formalin dips? Any help or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

---

Useful links:

• How to Quarantine and Steps to Knock Out Fish Disease (BRS)
• Identify and Eliminate Flukes (BRS)

I agree, methylene blue is highly overrated for use in marine aquariums.

That 1 ml formalin per gallon is WAY too high. I see it all over the Internet, but it works out to around 264 ppm. 250 ppm is the formalin dose for fish below 50 F. For tropical temperatures, the dose is 167 ppm for 45 minutes to an hour with GOOD aeration. So - why is there this huge error? Well, for starters, it is super simple to measure 1 ml for formalin (but that doesn't make it right). Secondarily, it won't outright kill most fish (but it is really stressful). Thirdly, it got promoted by a well-known internet persona, so it got widely spread around (but it is still an error!). Finally, no dips are 100% effective, and should not be relied upon to totally clear a fish of parasites. the example I always give is the fluke, Neobendenia. Formalin dips don't kill their eggs. The eggs have sticky tendrils that can attach to nets and fish. Moving just ONE egg to a new tank can restart an infection.

You do not need to sterilize a QT after a successful quarantine run - anything still in the tank got moved over to your DT when you moved the fish out. The only time you need to sterilize a QT is if you lost a group of fish to an unknown disease, or if you suspect that the QT has developed praziquantel resistant bacteria.

Here is my preferred quarantine process:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Poseidon Black Sea]

I agree, methylene blue is highly overrated for use in marine aquariums.

That 1 ml formalin per gallon is WAY too high. I see it all over the Internet, but it works out to around 264 ppm. 250 ppm is the formalin dose for fish below 50 F. For tropical temperatures, the dose is 167 ppm for 45 minutes to an hour with GOOD aeration. So - why is there this huge error? Well, for starters, it is super simple to measure 1 ml for formalin (but that doesn't make it right). Secondarily, it won't outright kill most fish (but it is really stressful). Thirdly, it got promoted by a well-known internet persona, so it got widely spread around (but it is still an error!). Finally, no dips are 100% effective, and should not be relied upon to totally clear a fish of parasites. the example I always give is the fluke, Neobendenia. Formalin dips don't kill their eggs. The eggs have sticky tendrils that can attach to nets and fish. Moving just ONE egg to a new tank can restart an infection.

You do not need to sterilize a QT after a successful quarantine run - anything still in the tank got moved over to your DT when you moved the fish out. The only time you need to sterilize a QT is if you lost a group of fish to an unknown disease, or if you suspect that the QT has developed praziquantel resistant bacteria.

Here is my preferred quarantine process:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2024 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed, proactive quarantine process can effectively eliminate these...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thanks for the response, i am still uncertain about using formalin, is there another treatment for brook? Also i was about doing 100% water changes every 3 days (no biological filtration) and so when i do that water change i was cleaning the tank to the bone.

 

[Poseidon Black Sea]

Skip the methylene and go to copperpower at 2.25 for 30 days and monitor with Hanna brand copper test kit. Do water change at the end and apply a dose of prazi at 85% of bottle recommendations for 8 days and do a water change and apply one more dose lasting 8 days. Add aeration using air stone with both treatments as it reduces appetite and oxygen

thanks for the input, I don t have cycled media to add to the qt and i head copper binds to it, also i don t have access to praziPro, it doesn't sell in Romania.

 

[vetteguy53081]

thanks for the input, I don t have cycled media to add to the qt and i head copper binds to it, also i don t have access to praziPro, it doesn't sell in Romania.

Copper does not bind to sponge or media and in your country, you can ger Aquasonic Oodinex (similar to copper) and Blue Planet Fluke treatment (similar to PraziPro)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the response, i am still uncertain about using formalin, is there another treatment for brook? Also i was about doing 100% water changes every 3 days (no biological filtration) and so when i do that water change i was cleaning the tank to the bone.

You may find that without bio filtration, the ammonia will reach a danger level before three days, sometimes in 24 hours.
Formalin is best for Brook, but some people use ruby reef rally pro and that can work if you catch it early enough.

 

[Poseidon Black Sea]

You may find that without bio filtration, the ammonia will reach a danger level before three days, sometimes in 24 hours.
Formalin is best for Brook, but some people use ruby reef rally pro and that can work if you catch it early enough.

I bought an ammonia badge and some Prime. After doing some research, I found that Prime is compatible with Copper Power. Here’s my plan:

Let’s say it’s Day 2, and the ammonia badge shows a dangerous level or anything concerning. I’ll dose Prime, as it binds ammonia for 24–48 hours. Then, on Day 3, I’ll perform a 100% water change.

I’ve also read several posts and seen your feedback about the 80/20 quarantine method recommended by BRS and Marine Collectors. I share your concerns about the lack of biofiltration. If I were to add bio balls as Elliot suggested, wouldn’t leaving them in the tank during a 100% water change pose a safety risk?

For now, I’ll try the 80/20 method without biofiltration. If anything goes wrong, I’ll have biofiltration and Prime on hand as backups.

I plan to start with a pair of clowns in a 10-gallon tank. If that goes well, the next step will be to quarantine my foxface and coral beauty from my first display tank. Once they’re ready, I’ll move them to my second display tank and let the first tank go fallow.

Wish me luck!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I bought an ammonia badge and some Prime. After doing some research, I found that Prime is compatible with Copper Power. Here’s my plan:

Let’s say it’s Day 2, and the ammonia badge shows a dangerous level or anything concerning. I’ll dose Prime, as it binds ammonia for 24–48 hours. Then, on Day 3, I’ll perform a 100% water change.

I’ve also read several posts and seen your feedback about the 80/20 quarantine method recommended by BRS and Marine Collectors. I share your concerns about the lack of biofiltration. If I were to add bio balls as Elliot suggested, wouldn’t leaving them in the tank during a 100% water change pose a safety risk?

For now, I’ll try the 80/20 method without biofiltration. If anything goes wrong, I’ll have biofiltration and Prime on hand as backups.

I plan to start with a pair of clowns in a 10-gallon tank. If that goes well, the next step will be to quarantine my foxface and coral beauty from my first display tank. Once they’re ready, I’ll move them to my second display tank and let the first tank go fallow.

Wish me luck!

I would not use Prime with any copper product. All reducing agents have the potential to break the copper/amine bond, releasing toxic copper into the water. I know that some people “say” Prime is safe to use, but it only safe based on how the chemical reaction shakes out - chemical reactions are complicated in seawater. For example, Prime might react with free ammonia first, but when that is used up, it starts working on bonded forms. The extent of that is based on dosing levels and how much free ammonia was present to begin with. Then, toxicity from these events can be peracute (causing death) but could also be acute or even chronic at lower levels.

 

[Poseidon Black Sea]

I would not use Prime with any copper product. All reducing agents have the potential to break the copper/amine bond, releasing toxic copper into the water. I know that some people “say” Prime is safe to use, but it only safe based on how the chemical reaction shakes out - chemical reactions are complicated in seawater. For example, Prime might react with free ammonia first, but when that is used up, it starts working on bonded forms. The extent of that is based on dosing levels and how much free ammonia was present to begin with. Then, toxicity from these events can be peracute (causing death) but could also be acute or even chronic at lower levels.

Said by HumbleFish
"First, a few disclaimers:

1. This only applies to using Seachem Prime with Copper Power.
2. I have not tested any other ammonia reducers with any other forms of copper. Seachem, for example, states right on their website that it is dangerous to mix any ammonia reducer with their Cupramine copper product.
3. The manufacturer of Coppersafe (Fritz) has told me that it is safe to use with ammonia reducers as well, but I have not independently verified this.

This all started when the manufacturer of Coppersafe (Fritz) informed me that their copper product was safe to use with Prime, Amquel, etc. This differs from what Seachem has always stated about Cupramine - that any ammonia reducer will turn it 10x more toxic. :eek: However, these are completely different forms of copper. Cupramine is "ionic copper" bound on amine, and an ammonia reducer has the potential to break that bound and reduce the Cupramine from the safe Cu2+ form to a very toxic Cu+ form. Coppersafe (and Copper Power) are both chelated coppers. A chelated copper solution is just a blend of two compounds. One is the copper sulfate granule, and the other is an ingredient that allows the copper granules to break down and stay in a liquid state. The ingredient that makes this happen is called a chelator, or sequestering agent.

After getting the green light/more confidence from a chemist about this, I began experimenting on fish by mixing Prime + Copper Power in a QT. I did this repeatedly on different batches of fish, got the copper level as high as 2.5 ppm, tested daily, dosed Prime daily and all the fish are still fine. :) Not once did I see a spike in the Cu level after dosing Prime using the Hanna High Range Copper Colorimeter (HI702).

So, I feel it is safe to use & recommend mixing Prime with Copper Power to control ammonia on an as needed basis. ;)

P.S. Prime can also be used with Chloroquine, General Cure and antibiotics. However, I would avoid dosing Prime in conjunction with liquid Prazipro due to the solubilizing agent it contains."

Link: https://humble.fish/community/threads/psa-prime-safe-to-use-with-copper-power.193/

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Said by HumbleFish
"First, a few disclaimers:

1. This only applies to using Seachem Prime with Copper Power.
2. I have not tested any other ammonia reducers with any other forms of copper. Seachem, for example, states right on their website that it is dangerous to mix any ammonia reducer with their Cupramine copper product.
3. The manufacturer of Coppersafe (Fritz) has told me that it is safe to use with ammonia reducers as well, but I have not independently verified this.

This all started when the manufacturer of Coppersafe (Fritz) informed me that their copper product was safe to use with Prime, Amquel, etc. This differs from what Seachem has always stated about Cupramine - that any ammonia reducer will turn it 10x more toxic. :eek: However, these are completely different forms of copper. Cupramine is "ionic copper" bound on amine, and an ammonia reducer has the potential to break that bound and reduce the Cupramine from the safe Cu2+ form to a very toxic Cu+ form. Coppersafe (and Copper Power) are both chelated coppers. A chelated copper solution is just a blend of two compounds. One is the copper sulfate granule, and the other is an ingredient that allows the copper granules to break down and stay in a liquid state. The ingredient that makes this happen is called a chelator, or sequestering agent.

After getting the green light/more confidence from a chemist about this, I began experimenting on fish by mixing Prime + Copper Power in a QT. I did this repeatedly on different batches of fish, got the copper level as high as 2.5 ppm, tested daily, dosed Prime daily and all the fish are still fine. :) Not once did I see a spike in the Cu level after dosing Prime using the Hanna High Range Copper Colorimeter (HI702).

So, I feel it is safe to use & recommend mixing Prime with Copper Power to control ammonia on an as needed basis. ;)

P.S. Prime can also be used with Chloroquine, General Cure and antibiotics. However, I would avoid dosing Prime in conjunction with liquid Prazipro due to the solubilizing agent it contains."

Link: https://humble.fish/community/threads/psa-prime-safe-to-use-with-copper-power.193/

Yeah - I know he says that. I do not agree with his assessment, for the reasons I stated.

His saying he didn't see a "spike" in the copper test is invalid. Breaking the bond between the amine and the copper molecules will NOT give a higher copper concentration on these tests, as they break the bond during the test itself.

Bottom line - I think a LOT of "copper sensitivity" seen in fish is a result of breaking the amine-copper bonds during treatments due to using reducing agents. I never use ANY reducing agents when treating copper and I never see any problems. Formalin, sodium thiosulfate, Prime and possibly sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate are all suspected of breaking these bonds if used in excess of what is needed for the initial binding reaction.