Pressure on False Claim Products

[rtparty]

Randy seems to hate Brightwell specifically

They just happen to have multiple items with false claims and their “head scientist” doesn’t actually know/understand the science. Or he does know and willingly spreads false claims?

Randy has mentioned at least two other companies in here (maybe more) and sent them messages as well.

 

[Pyrogens]

Not trying to jump on the Randy is right bandwagon (if it exists), but if anyone think he singles out only a single company obviously doesn't pay attention to his posts, articles, etc. If you are at all about the truth and science behind the hobby, you'd be wise to read his work and form an opinion thus after. Keep in mind, he LITERALLY is a Reef Chemist.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Randy seems to hate Brightwell specifically

If you read one post and make that conclusion, sure.
I think if you browse around a bit, you will find that Randy (like many of us) simply dislikes misinformation. In Randy's case, especially when it comes to chemistry and false claims.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why bash on Brightwell company specifically? Why not be fair and bash on other companies?

Like Seachem who falsely advertised Prime to detoxify ammonia?

Or companies that sell bacteria supplements when most if not all of the species of bacteria used can’t reproduce in saltwater?

Or the company that sells MarinePure blocks that leech aluminium and don’t even reduce nitrate?

What targer Brightwell specifically when other companies also sell both good and bad products?

I’m targeting both Brightwell and Seachem on this alk/pH product for two critical reasons:

1. It is self evidently unable to do what it claims. There’s no debate about testing or methods or errors or wrong conditions or wrong organisms examined. Almost no other product I am aware of fits this description. The ones you mention do not. If I cannot convince one or both of these companies to change the description or drop the product, there is no possible hope for more complex issues such as Seachem Prime, bottled bacteria, denitrification media, etc.

2. The effect on a reef tank for someone who believes the false claims can be significant and negative.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy seems to hate Brightwell specifically

Lol

As folks suggest, I am against misleading products. Brightwell happens to have several. That’s why they come up more frequently than companies that have fewer or no problematic products. The problem products that I harp on from Brightwell specifically are simple chemical misinformation or misleading statements. Thus, they are more readily exposed to be misleading than are the far more complicated claims such as “boosts red colors in corals” or even “detoxifies ammonia/nitrite/nitrate”. I have gotten Brightwell to make a product claim change in the past (claiming way more magnesium in their magnesium product than could possibly be there based on their stated ingredients), and hope to again.

The fact that they (Brightwell and Seachem) have multiple problem products also makes me not want to support them, and to not trust them about products that require trusting their chemical knowledge. In balancing of a two part for example, we rely on the company in design aspects such as the concentration of all the other ions resent (e.g., potassium).

I have my suspicions who designed a bunch of these misleading products for both Seachem and Brightwell, but I do not want to make this thread about rumor without evidence. I would suggest that any reef chemical company hoping to design complex chemical products might be better off having them designed by a chemist rather than a marine biologist, as Brightwell publicly claims.

 

[Steve2020]

Randy, is it possible to to have a product that claims to be ph neutral but also claims to raise dKH? I am not sure how that is possible but would like your opinion. @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[Reefer Matt]

I think there is this notion through social media that product companies are in business to help the hobby rather than make money. Though great advancements have been made, their primary goal is to extract as much cash as possible from people. It’s just business. Marketing is all around you, even here on R2R. Some companies are better than others about how accurate they advertise their products though. Those are the companies we should support, imo. I am glad there are those like @Randy Holmes-Farley that actually care enough to challenge product claims, and try to educate others to do the same.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, is it possible to to have a product that claims to be ph neutral but also claims to raise dKH? I am not sure how that is possible but would like your opinion. @Randy Holmes-Farley

Certainly, yes. A product that is mostly bicarbonate and a little carbonate, matching the ratio currently in the tank water you add it to will have no pH effect.

 

[Steve2020]

Certainly, yes. A product that is mostly bicarbonate and a little carbonate, matching the ratio currently in the tank water you add it to will have no pH effect.

Very interesting. I did not know that. So if I wanted to raise my alkalinity lets say from 7dKH to 8dKH without any increase in ph it is best to use a product that is mostly bicarbonate? That's good to know.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Very interesting. I did not know that. So if I wanted to raise my alkalinity lets say from 7dKH to 8dKH without any increase in ph it is best to use a product that is mostly bicarbonate? That's good to know.

Yes. Bicarbonate only will have just a small pH effect.

 

[jason2459]

Or the company that sells MarinePure blocks that leech aluminium and don’t even reduce nitrate?

Thanks for the reminder. I just posted an update.

How much Aluminum will it leach? Let's guess

Going to do a quick 1 month experiment with marine pure ceramic 4"x8"x8" block. I'm the poster child for ADD and curiosity killed the cat. This hobby is just to much fun as there's so much to play with. I'm not going to see how it effects my nutrients (N and P). As unless I messed something...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, most folks here may not remember, but years ago when I investigated why leather corals were known to sometimes close up when using Seachem Phosguard, I undertook one of the earliest icp investigations of reef issues.

I used an icp we had at work to show that Phosguard could release aluminum to reef tank water, and that adding aluminum itself to a reef tank would also cause leathers to close up.

Seachem came after me with all guns blazing. I debated the owner at the time, and others who were probably company or consultant “experts”. I even did additional experiments they suggested with similar results.

Finally, they ran their own icp test. Incredibly, they chose a method that by their own statement couldn’t detect the levels I saw, detected “none”, and then touted everywhere that their tests proved no aluminum was released.

That was the main time that I can recall when I lost any confidence in Seachem.

 

[jason2459]

Is Kent still with Brightwell?

 

[Nonya]

Why bash on Brightwell company specifically? Why not be fair and bash on other companies?

Like Seachem who falsely advertised Prime to detoxify ammonia?

Or companies that sell bacteria supplements when most if not all of the species of bacteria used can’t reproduce in saltwater?

Or the company that sells MarinePure blocks that leech aluminium and don’t even reduce nitrate?

What targer Brightwell specifically when other companies also sell both good and bad products?

You have to start somewhere, and it sounds like Prime has already been exposed.

 

[Nonya]

Seachem came after me with all guns blazing. I debated the owner at the time, and others who were probably company or consultant “experts”. I even did additional experiments they suggested with similar results.

Finally, they ran their own icp test. Incredibly, they chose a method that by their own statement couldn’t detect the levels I saw, detected “none”, and then touted everywhere that their tests proved no aluminum was released.

Did/Does Seahem actually contain aluminum now?

It would be nice to have a list of products that have been proven to be harmful, and summary of what the manufacturers' responses were when confronted with the truth, to include changes to labeling and ingredients.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Did/Does Seahem actually contain aluminum now?

It would be nice to have a list of products that have been proven to be harmful, and summary of what the manufacturers' responses were when confronted with the truth, to include changes to labeling and ingredients.

Phosguard is aluminum oxide. I do not know what their denitrification media is.

 

[Nonya]

Phosguard is aluminum oxide. I do not know what their denitrification media is.

Wow. Why not switch to lanthanum chloride?

 

[jason2459]

Wow. Why not switch to lanthanum chloride?

There can be issues with that as well. There's still debate as to the negative effects of both Aluminum and LaCl

 

[Nonya]

There can be issues with that as well. There's still debate as to the negative effects of both Aluminum and LaCl

I've used it in the past with no problems. I think the key is not to add so much that it binds up all of the available phosphate, and to use a filter to catch the precipitate.

 

[GlassMunky]

Is Kent still with Brightwell?

Yes.
"
Founded by marine aquarium hobbyist, engineer and long time aquarium products manufacturer Jack Kent and his wife Kay, Continuum Aquatics & Brightwell Aquatics, continues their quest for the most innovative, high quality aquarium products combined with excellence in customer service.

Jack Kent was the President of Kent Marine, Inc for 17 years from 1989-2006 when he sold the company and went into retirement. Jack's passion for the hobby could not keep him in retirement however and about 5 years later as a continuation of his legacy, he founded Continuum Aquatics.

In 2016 Jack bought Brightwell Aquatics and both companies operate seamlessly under his leadership. His commitment to excellence is driven by his experience as a hobbyist. His science based approach underscores every item we have in our product family."

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