Prices

[vetteguy53081]

You are completely correct it ruins the hobby I have spend over 2 grand on corals for my tank and have little to show for it now I don’t even want to buy a coral no matter the price. Honesty it’s going to ruin the hobby for a lot of people and prevent new comers from joining

Thats a great point you make. . . . . .
New hobbyists will calculate what it takes to set up a saltwater tank then become horrified or discouraged once they see the price of SIMPLE coral.

 

[Perthegallon]

Thats a great point you make. . . . . .
New hobbyists will calculate what it takes to set up a saltwater tank then become horrified or discouraged once they see the price of SIMPLE coral.

I mean it’s great once they grow I go every month now and trade my corals for new ones but it’s so much money to start I almost quite

 

[JCOLE]

I’m slightly lost on your argument? You are selling frags to a LFS for $5 a piece, for them to resell for maybe 10x that, how is that helping the hobbyist? I could understand if you were selling them directly to the public for $5.

I know how much my LFS will sell them for. They won't list them more than 20-30 a pop which is fair considering what they are. Again, what they decide to do with it is up to them and again, they have overhead. They have a business to run with staff, etc. I get the extra cost of certain items.

My whole argument was on your average "HOBBYIST" who looks at this as a get rich plan instead of a true hobby.

I know from experience as I have dealt with some locals around me. I have a guy who has a completely stocked 500 gallon tank packed with SPS and he says any coral you want is $20. When he cuts a frag it is 2" plus. You can tell this guy loves the hobby and is just looking to thin out his stock and make a little extra while hooking up the hobbyist.

However, I have a couple other guys who have a display tank only. No frag tanks, setups, etc just a display tank only and when I go to them they pull out a price sheet for how much they paid for every item and want almost 75% of that price. They then frag 1/2" nubs. When I saw that I decided never to go to them again.

I know some people won't agree but that's the way I see it. I have a strong feeling that with how the reefs are doing and how the economy is going then we will see LFS closing down eventually. This will lead to a lot of people getting out of the hobby and then It will be up to the true "HOBBYIST" who really care and enjoy this hobby to keep it going.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I know how much my LFS will sell them for. They won't list them more than 20-30 a pop which is fair considering what they are. Again, what they decide to do with it is up to them and again, they have overhead. They have a business to run with staff, etc. I get the extra cost of certain items.

My whole argument was on your average "HOBBYIST" who looks at this as a get rich plan instead of a true hobby.

I know from experience as I have dealt with some locals around me. I have a guy who has a completely stocked 500 gallon tank packed with SPS and he says any coral you want is $20. When he cuts a frag it is 2" plus. You can tell this guy loves the hobby and is just looking to thin out his stock and make a little extra while hooking up the hobbyist.

However, I have a couple other guys who have a display tank only. No frag tanks, setups, etc just a display tank only and when I go to them they pull out a price sheet for how much they paid for every item and want almost 75% of that price. They then frag 1/2" nubs. When I saw that I decided never to go to them again.

I know some people won't agree but that's the way I see it. I have a strong feeling that with how the reefs are doing and how the economy is going then we will see LFS closing down eventually. This will lead to a lot of people getting out of the hobby and then It will be up to the true "HOBBYIST" who really care and enjoy this hobby to keep it going.

Problem with many vendors , is the picture is big and beautiful and eye popping and looks like about a 1-1.5" specimen and to get them at 1/2" to 3/4" is a slap in the face

 

[BeltedCoyote]

This is such a valid discussion. As a newbie (been in the hobby a year now but only have a 40b fish only tank, working on my dream build), it’s really dismaying time see vender prices. I’m trying to set up a large system. The price of that alone is enough to make me wonder what I’m doing when it’s late at night and sleep isn’t fast in coming.

I love coral. I can’t wait to have a tank full of color. And I plan on getting into the frag game. At least far enough to make a little back. But really, I don’t plan on selling much, and I don’t plan on charging more than 30$ a frag. I don’t plan on having frags smaller than 1.5-2”. But more than that, I want to get into propagating coral to further the aquaculture effort. With all that’s happening to our oceans, something has to be done. Be that our corals being solely sourced from aquaculture in the future, or maybe even helping to re-populate reefs.

I really wish we as a hobby could turn our passion for coral into something beneficial for ourselves and our planet. I truly believe we could be a source of powerful change for the better....

 

[92Miata]

I hate when people in the selling livestock section post up prices of corals that are store prices. $500 for this frag when its the same price as a retailer. We are hobbyists, give a better price.

This is a bad take


It's more expensive to grow out corals than it is to buy them off a wholesale list and bust them up.

We'd all be a lot better off if hobby aquacultue was more viable.

 

[Reef.]

I think some people misunderstand how a market works, if I wanted to sell a used heater, I look to see what the new ones go for, what others are selling used heaters for and price accordingly i.e less than a new heater and inline with other used heaters, if I am willing to pay $40 to an LFS for a frag why would I also not be willing to pay the same to a hobbyist? the frag is not “used” why would I see less value from a hobbyist? I understand a business has overheads but if I were the seller of that frag why would I price it at a 10th the price of exactly the same frag someone else is selling, knowing the frag from the LFS has probably come from the hobbyist anyway.

if the argument is one hobbyist should sell to another hobbyist for mates rates, then that does happen a lot in the hobby but remember this is not a “used” market, the price is set by demand, every market works the same, this is no different to any other market and we do ourselves a disservice when we talk as if the people in this hobby were some how money grabbing people, if that were true, no one would be selling frags to their LFS for a fraction of what they could get on the open market, or local club meets.

 

[Pntbll687]

I just started having really good growth in my tank and my husband and I decided that if we are going to sell any frags, that they'll be no more than $20 for a good size. Or we trade them. Simple as that.

This is exactly what I do!

I also don't buy from anyone who does not clearly label prices in pictures or in comments.

A local LFS posted pics of some good size monti colonies, I commented and asked for a price. They said to send a private message for prices. I always comment that pricing needs to be in the picture or the first comment on facebook.

We need to change the way pricing is done in this hobby. It's literally the way used car sales used to be, a different price for each person depending on what they think they can get from you.

You don't go to the grocery store and have to ask how much anything is, even things that vary like packs of meat, BECAUSE IT'S CLEARLY LABELED.

Sorry for the rant. It just really grinds my gears.

 

[Perthegallon]

This is exactly what I do!

I also don't buy from anyone who does not clearly label prices in pictures or in comments.

A local LFS posted pics of some good size monti colonies, I commented and asked for a price. They said to send a private message for prices. I always comment that pricing needs to be in the picture or the first comment on facebook.

We need to change the way pricing is done in this hobby. It's literally the way used car sales used to be, a different price for each person depending on what they think they can get from you.

You don't go to the grocery store and have to ask how much anything is, even things that vary like packs of meat, BECAUSE IT'S CLEARLY LABELED.

Sorry for the rant. It just really grinds my gears.

I believe on social media platforms they can be kicked off for listing prices

 

[JCOLE]

I think some people misunderstand how a market works, if I wanted to sell a used heater, I look to see what the new ones go for, what others are selling used heaters for and price accordingly i.e less than a new heater and inline with other used heaters, if I am willing to pay $40 to an LFS for a frag why would I also not be willing to pay the same to a hobbyist? the frag is not “used” why would I see less value from a hobbyist? I understand a business has overheads but if I were the seller of that frag why would I price it at a 10th the price of exactly the same frag someone else is selling, knowing the frag from the LFS has probably come from the hobbyist anyway.

if the argument is one hobbyist should sell to another hobbyist for mates rates, then that does happen a lot in the hobby but remember this is not a “used” market, the price is set by demand, every market works the same, this is no different to any other market and we do ourselves a disservice when we talk as if the people in this hobby were some how money grabbing people, if that were true, no one would be selling frags to their LFS for a fraction of what they could get on the open market, or local club meets.

I get what you are saying. However, it isnt the same to place equipment in the same arena as Coral. Especially SPS and Zoas. You have a heater and when it's time to sell then you only have that one heater so you sell it for what you believe is fair. However, if your heater produced baby heaters every month then would you sell those heaters at the same cost as what you originally paid for the heater? If so, then good luck.

That is the whole point. You buy a frag for $150 then once its fraggable in a year you sell all the small frags for $150 again. I get it. Many do it and that's up to them and it helps cover costs, etc. I just don't see this lasting if we continue down this road.

I know what I am doing. I have been in the hobby for awhile and I currently have a full Acro dominate tank with over 90 pieces and thousands invested. If one or two RTN then it is what it is and I know it happens. That wouldnt be enough for me to leave the hobby. However, if I was new and only a year in and I lost $300 overnight in two corals then I could see myself leaving the hobby.

 

[Reef.]

I get what you are saying. However, it isnt the same to place equipment in the same arena as Coral. Especially SPS and Zoas. You have a heater and when it's time to sell then you only have that one heater so you sell it for what you believe is fair. However, if your heater produced baby heaters every month then would you sell those heaters at the same cost as what you originally paid for the heater? If so, then good luck.

That is the whole point. You buy a frag for $150 then once its fraggable in a year you sell all the small frags for $150 again. I get it. Many do it and that's up to them and it helps cover costs, etc. I just don't see this lasting if we continue down this road.

I know what I am doing. I have been in the hobby for awhile and I currently have a full Acro dominate tank with over 90 pieces and thousands invested. If one or two RTN then it is what it is and I know it happens. That wouldnt be enough for me to leave the hobby. However, if I was new and only a year in and I lost $300 overnight in two corals then I could see myself leaving the hobby.

you don’t get what I am saying or have chosen to disregard it, if the heater spouted babies they would be priced at the market rate, I would price them at the same price others were going for, I wouldn’t price them at less then the going rate, if a used shop was selling one for $40 why would a private seller sell the same heater for $5!

I just don’t get why people have a hard time accepting an item only sells for what someone is willing to pay, I would love if I could pick up all my frags for a few bucks, but I know I will be paying the going rate.

if the hobbyist were to sell at a fraction of the price an LFS did, the LFS would be out of business in weeks, no one would buy from them, you wouldn’t be able to sell to them either, a market doesn’t run on good wishes but on supply and demand.

 

[reefiniteasy]

What’s wrong with people charging what the market is willing to pay? No one forces anyone to buy anything. Also, I think time is money and the care and maintenance that goes into growing out corals is worth something. Just my 2-cents.

 

[JCOLE]

you don’t get what I am saying or have chosen to disregard it, if the heater spouted babies they would be priced at the market rate, I would price them at the same price others were going for, I wouldn’t price them at less then the going rate, if a used shop was selling one for $40 why would a private seller sell the same heater for $5!

I just don’t get why people have a hard time accepting an item only sells for what someone is willing to pay, I would love if I could pick up all my frags for a few bucks, but I know I will be paying the going rate.

if the hobbyist were to sell at a fraction of the price an LFS did, the LFS would be out of business in weeks, no one would buy from them, you wouldn’t be able to sell to them either, a market doesn’t run on good wishes but on supply and demand.

Yes I get what you are saying. Do you get what I am saying? Its these "HOBBYIST" that have driven up these market prices. It's not that difficult to understand. It's all under the bandwagon. If vendor A sells it for $150 then vendor B thinks they get the same, then so on. It's a trickle down affect.

I get the principle of Market value. Again, I am referring to Hobbyist that are obviously selling as a job instead of a hobby. I get why and I am not saying they shouldn't. I just feel it is not going to be good for the sustainability of this hobby.

 

[Pntbll687]

I believe on social media platforms they can be kicked off for listing prices

Yea I know.

But just so everyone knows, if you put the price in the comments, the post will stay up.

Whenever I frag anything and post them for sale on FB, it's always listed as $1234 on the price, then the description says "see comments". Works every time.

 

[Opus]

This is exactly what I do!

I also don't buy from anyone who does not clearly label prices in pictures or in comments.

A local LFS posted pics of some good size monti colonies, I commented and asked for a price. They said to send a private message for prices. I always comment that pricing needs to be in the picture or the first comment on facebook.

We need to change the way pricing is done in this hobby. It's literally the way used car sales used to be, a different price for each person depending on what they think they can get from you.

You don't go to the grocery store and have to ask how much anything is, even things that vary like packs of meat, BECAUSE IT'S CLEARLY LABELED.

Sorry for the rant. It just really grinds my gears.

Unfortunately I get why some vendors have to do this. They will post the price then the listing gets buried with people complaining about the price. At a store you want have a line of people blocking the meat counter complaining about the price keeping the people that want the meat from buying it (unless there is a riot). Plus I've found the reefing retail business to be a lot different from normal retail. I talk to the local lfs guy all the time and he said a ton of people come in expecting to do "deals" and not pay the price that is listed. I never see anyone do that at any other retail store.

 

[Opus]

As I've told some lfs before. If you really are concerned about these "hobbyiest" selling from their homes/basements. One call to the local taxing/zoning authority would probably shut them down fairly quickly.

 

[92Miata]

Unfortunately I get why some vendors have to do this. They will post the price then the listing gets buried with people complaining about the price. At a store you want have a line of people blocking the meat counter complaining about the price keeping the people that want the meat from buying it (unless there is a riot). Plus I've found the reefing retail business to be a lot different from normal retail. I talk to the local lfs guy all the time and he said a ton of people come in expecting to do "deals" and not pay the price that is listed. I never see anyone do that at any other retail store.

The reason people treat lfs like used car sales places is that that's how most of them operate. Prices are different for each customer, they rip.off newbies , and they lie to make sales.

 

[reefiniteasy]

Just because this is R2R, why should something be any cheaper than a retailer? Charging the same price as WWC or TSA is not going to break or damage the hobby. There are plenty of hobbyists on this forum that sell for way under perceived value. Is this a genuine concern for the hobby or frustration that a certain piece is too expensive and unaffordable and there is no deal to be found here.

 

[Everything Aquatics]

I live in NJ and I have to say I know a few people
That have way better setup at home than LFS.
I buy what I like and most of my corals come
From local sellers selling out of their basement
And garages. I also trade with people from my reef club.
The problem with (retail) LFS is that usually you have
One person who is really good he/she is the owner.
The store to be successful need this person to work
7 days a week 10 hrs a day. That’s impossible so
They hire other people that are not passionate
About the hobby and that’s how you get
Frags with pest. The person selling out of his basement
Usually is very clean and from what I have seen
Have a better setup than most LFS.

I believe The future of this hobby is with
Aquaculture frags and that comes from
People growing frags in their basement.

Love the reef has great team not just the owners, that’s why Its my favorite it so much
@LoveTheReef

 

[Opus]

So to summarize. We want cheap prices for the “newbies” and we also bring sustaining the reefs into the conversation. Yet these cheap prices are going to promote the kind of husbandry that will kill many many coral. As I stated in another thread. Look how many live sales are starting to go on now. There is 1 or 2 every weekend. There used to be 1 or 2 a quarter. So you are looking at thousands of frags sold each weekend with many people scrambling to get those cheap $1 to $10 pieces. Many of those people are newbies that have no idea what they are buying. I wouldn’t be shocked if someone told me that 50% of the frags sold during these live sales were dead within a year.

Honestly fragging may have been one of the worst things for the hobby cost wise. It is like water. I would have laughed in your face when I was younger if you would have told me people would pay $2 or $3 for a bottle of water. Same for a coral, I would have never thought someone would pay $20, much less $1000 for a single mushroom when I could currently get a rock covered for that price. Then you have the perfect storm of cheap easy macro photography, naming corals comes along and then bam, social media.