Prices

[sp1187]

nice thread @sp1187 !..i'm outta here

not my thread.
have a good trip.

 

[Amado]

Some just don't get it. If I spend $200 on a frag then it is because I like it and want to grow it out and enjoy it. I dont buy that frag with the intention of making a profit. This mentality of get what you can get for it is doing HARM to this hobby.

If I buy that frag at $200 then in a year when it is ready to frag then I will frag 10 smaller frags and sell them for $20. Now that frag paid for itself and I got to enjoy it while letting others enjoy it as well.

Jason Fox is not a good example. Have you seen his basement? Lol. It is bigger than most of the brick and mortar grow outs. He has a ton of expense. Also, I don't agree with his prices as well lol. But I get it on his end. I also know of a couple people on this forum who are setup the same way as Jason Fox and sell pieces at outstanding prices. I have purchased tons from them.

Again, this is to the average person who has a little frag tank and buys these corals to grow them out and label all of them as "FIRE" and sells them for $300 a piece.

This hobby is going to crash with this mentality. Trust me. I have a feeling that a worldwide ban on coral import is coming and when that day comes it is not going to be good for this hobby.

I live in NJ and I have to say I know a few people
That have way better setup at home than LFS.
I buy what I like and most of my corals come
From local sellers selling out of their basement
And garages. I also trade with people from my reef club.
The problem with (retail) LFS is that usually you have
One person who is really good he/she is the owner.
The store to be successful need this person to work
7 days a week 10 hrs a day. That’s impossible so
They hire other people that are not passionate
About the hobby and that’s how you get
Frags with pest. The person selling out of his basement
Usually is very clean and from what I have seen
Have a better setup than most LFS.

I believe The future of this hobby is with
Aquaculture frags and that comes from
People growing frags in their basement.

 

[EMeyer]

One thing to keep in mind. Just because you see someone repeatedly posting "fire" corals for sale at $300 a frag doesnt mean theyre actually selling many at that price. Or any.

I completely agree that its nuts but without seeing some sales data, I think its likely most of those posts are just somebody's wishful thinking.

 

[fishguy242]

@Weevo great thread!! i'm outta here

 

[JCOLE]

I live in NJ and I have to say I know a few people
That have way better setup at home than LFS.
I buy what I like and most of my corals come
From local sellers selling out of their basement
And garages. I also trade with people from my reef club.
The problem with (retail) LFS is that usually you have
One person who is really good he/she is the owner.
The store to be successful need this person to work
7 days a week 10 hrs a day. That’s impossible so
They hire other people that are not passionate
About the hobby and that’s how you get
Frags with pest. The person selling out of his basement
Usually is very clean and from what I have seen
Have a better setup than most LFS.

I believe The future of this hobby is with
Aquaculture frags and that comes from
People growing frags in their basement.

I 100% agree with you. The future WILL be this. The problem is if it is virtually impossible to buy then where does it go.

I am in the same boat as you. I know where to look and find the best deals. I know locals and my LFS around me are very reasonable.

I am more talking for the newer hobbyist. I have been in the hobby since the early 00's and I have seen the ups and downs. However, these prices are all the newer hobbyist knows. If I got into it now then I probably wouldnt last or could afford it in the first year and eventually would get out. That is not good for the hobby. The more hobbyist stay in and the more affordable it is then the better of this hobby will be.

 

[JCOLE]

One thing to keep in mind. Just because you see someone repeatedly posting "fire" corals for sale at $300 a frag doesnt mean theyre actually selling many at that price. Or any.

I completely agree that its nuts but without seeing some sales data, I think its likely most of those posts are just somebody's wishful thinking.

I understand and I often wonder when they put SOLD next to $400 corals that it is just a tantic to entice people to buy them at that price.

 

[Wildreefs]

The way I look at it if the market supports the price then get as much as you can. If your competition is a 16yr growing frags in a garage you need to re-think your business plan.
Jason fox who a lot of people get their frags from is a guy
Selling out of his basement. Lol
The golf club analogy doesn’t work because golf clubs don’t grow and replicate. So if you had a set of golf clubs for
2k and you took one club and sold it for $300
And I was able to grow that club into multiple
2k clubs then it would be the same as buying a frag
Growing it out and getting money for each frag.

Bingo. And when there are a high number of “uninformed” buyers who are willing to spend 3x what it should, for frags that are 3 times smaller than what a drag used to be, well you have an artificial inflated market.

Kinda like a fake eBay account the seller has or knows the drive the bid up, or when a bunch of Uber drivers agree to turn there phones off at a set time to create a shortage of drivers and increasing fares.

I too am guilty of this at times, I picked 4-5 name acros 2 months ago, knew I was over paying, but the biggest disappointment was not the price, but the half inch sticks I got.

In fact one Millie fell to the bottom of the tank as I was gluing it, so small in fact I couldn’t find it in the rock work, and it was probably staring right at me.

 

[Deezill]

Ok since we talking prices and please don't hate me but I think Shipping mods that are 50 bucks are insane. I don't want to mention a certain vendor who had a live sale with a 50 dollar shipping mod. I refused to even attend the live sale. This is just me please don't hate me but shipping mods should not cost over 30-35 bucks. Just sayin.

 

[BighohoReef]

You wanna know what grinds my gears euphyllia pricing. $1000+ for a tiny single head of gold Indo... we all know the designer name, 2-3 years ago that coral was $100-250 tops. Now everyone asks for an ID and name my torch so they can price it high. It isn’t sustainable at the prices were starting to see... I get LFS prices and overhead. Private hobbyists not so much.

 

[X-37B]

One lfs buys wild colonies for around $60.
They will sell good size frags for cheap $10-20.
Another will buy similar wild colonies and chop it up into 20+ 1/2" frags at $30+ a piece.
The overhead is much higher at the lfs that makes 1/2" frags.
I buy from both when I see something I like thats at a reasonable price.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I literally quit buying at these prices. I just buy out tanks being taken down or from local hobbyists.

 

[Asagi]

I literally quit buying at these prices. I just buy out tanks being taken down or from local hobbyists.

We do a lot of trading around my area/network too. It’s just more fun that way!

 

[Weevo]

If I was going to buy say a TSA frag for $500 then someone post one here for $500 is a slap in the face. At that point I rather give my money to TSA with a no hassel policys, instead of no responsible for shipping delays.

 

[Ccote]

anyone ship or live near nh

I’m in New Hampshire. I’m looking to buy coral though

 

[NashobaTek]

I haven't started buying coral yet, but I will say that there's no way in hell I'm paying some of the prices I have seen for the same thing on a retail site for way less.

In fact before I mortgage my house for a bit of pretty coral, I will have a fish only tank. Yes it is pretty, but not worth the extremely highly inflated prices.
I don't need coral that bad!

 

[Reef.]

This is one of my biggest issues I have with the hobby as well. I get the retailer's that have business expenses such as overhead, utilities, etc. However, when I see people selling tiny nubs for the same price if not more than what they were purchased for makes me sick. It's going to kill the hobby because only some will be able to afford it.

I have locals around me that cut giant frags of popular corals like fox flame, WD, etc for $20 and I have some that sell 1/2" nubs for $200. It drives me crazy as a hobbyist. I am in it because I truly enjoy growing corals and I want to share that with people. For some it seems that this is a get rich scheme and it's not helping the hobby because newer hobbyist think this is how it should be.

Just to show what I mean. It's a bad picture but I am taking all of these corals up to my LFS and trading them in for store credit at $5 a piece. I know they are not the latested and greatest "rooty tootie fresh and fruity" piece but some of these could easily sell for $40 a piece.



Again, this isnt a jab at the retailers. This is for the hobbyist. I have tons of $200+ pieces in my tank and I will sell them for $20 or less when it comes time to frag.

I’m slightly lost on your argument? You are selling frags to a LFS for $5 a piece, for them to resell for maybe 10x that, how is that helping the hobbyist? I could understand if you were selling them directly to the public for $5.

 

[EMeyer]

If your competition is a 16yr growing frags in a garage you need to re-think your business plan.

This. People complain that small sellers are undercutting the brick and mortars. I never understand why customers insist on supporting businesses that refuse to minimize their overhead. Sounds to me like small sellers have figured out how to make the coral selling business more efficient. Thats a win for consumers, inefficient businesses should be out-competed.

In these discussions about aquarium industry businesses, people often talk about costs as if overhead and R&D costs were immutable laws of Physics rather than decisions made by the business owners.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Bottom line is we are disciplined especially since Covid-19 began and are realizing the inflated pricing. We have gotten more consumer conscious and smarter with spending and have refused to pay what we are recognizing some pieces as Over-inflated and in turn, coral such as Bounces mushroom have gone from $500 range to $250 range and will continue to fall as long as we continue to NOT pay those rediculous prices.
There are likely to continue to be NO frag shows or swaps for the remainder of 2020 and this would be the time for vendors especially the small ones to reduce their pricing and move product.

For me, to see persons posting zoa at average $45 for 1-2 heads and offering free ship at $300-$350 for 5-6 pieces being an entire order is Absurd. I will continue to buy from local groups and private parties who sell at a " Makes sense" prices . We are being taken advantage of and need to insist " We are not going take it Anymore !! ".
I viewed 3 different auctions this past weekend and to see many excited about their finds celebrate . . makes me shake My head !! Everyone has different views on pricing. I track and watch and know who is playing the game.
Im again done with auctions especially when a week before or after , I see the same items at $10-$15 less from same vendor. I was once a retailer owning a Full line Pet store and know what many are worth and hope many consider " What it is worth" before they empty their hard earned money for something they could have purchased elsewhere for Much less. We are reefers, not wealthy hobbyists and this behavior by vendors needs to Cease sooner than later !

 

[samnaz]

Some just don't get it. If I spend $200 on a frag then it is because I like it and want to grow it out and enjoy it. I dont buy that frag with the intention of making a profit. This mentality of get what you can get for it is doing HARM to this hobby.

If I buy that frag at $200 then in a year when it is ready to frag then I will frag 10 smaller frags and sell them for $20. Now that frag paid for itself and I got to enjoy it while letting others enjoy it as well.

Jason Fox is not a good example. Have you seen his basement? Lol. It is bigger than most of the brick and mortar grow outs. He has a ton of expense. Also, I don't agree with his prices as well lol. But I get it on his end. I also know of a couple people on this forum who are setup the same way as Jason Fox and sell pieces at outstanding prices. I have purchased tons from them.

Again, this is to the average person who has a little frag tank and buys these corals to grow them out and label all of them as "FIRE" and sells them for $300 a piece.

This hobby is going to crash with this mentality. Trust me. I have a feeling that a worldwide ban on coral import is coming and when that day comes it is not going to be good for this hobby.

Couldn't agree more...

 

[Perthegallon]

Bottom line is we are disciplined especially since Covid-19 began and are realizing the inflated pricing. We have gotten more consumer conscious and smarter with spending and have refused to pay what we are recognizing some pieces as Over-inflated and in turn, coral such as Bounces mushroom have gone from $500 range to $250 range and will continue to fall as long as we continue to NOT pay those rediculous prices.
There are likely to continue to be NO frag shows or swaps for the remainder of 2020 and this would be the time for vendors especially the small ones to reduce their pricing and move product.

For me, to see persons posting zoa at average $45 for 1-2 heads and offering free ship at $300-$350 for 5-6 pieces being an entire order is Absurd. I will continue to buy from local groups and private parties who sell at a " Makes sense" prices . We are being taken advantage of and need to insist " We are not going take it Anymore !! ".
I viewed 3 different auctions this past weekend and to see many excited about their finds celebrate . . makes me shake My head !! Everyone has different views on pricing. I track and watch and know who is playing the game.
Im again done with auctions especially when a week before or after , I see the same items at $10-$15 less from same vendor. I was once a retailer owning a Full line Pet store and know what many are worth and hope many consider " What it is worth" before they empty their hard earned money for something they could have purchased elsewhere for Much less. We are reefers, not wealthy hobbyists and this behavior by vendors needs to Cease sooner than later !

You are completely correct it ruins the hobby I have spend over 2 grand on corals for my tank and have little to show for it now I don’t even want to buy a coral no matter the price. Honesty it’s going to ruin the hobby for a lot of people and prevent new comers from joining