PSA: Ditch your API test kit

[Rmckoy]

For a difference of opinion perhaps with many years of experience @vetteguy53081 seams to have little faith or trust for api kits .
even though even when I started , api was easily accessible and affordable , you really didn’t hear of all these other test kits

why was api the leading test kit for many Years and all of a sudden not

 

[MnFish1]

For a difference of opinion perhaps with many years of experience @vetteguy53081 seams to have little faith or trust for api kits .
even though even when I started , api was easily accessible and affordable , you really didn’t hear of all these other test kits

why was api the leading test kit for many Years and all of a sudden not

This is an unfortunate difference of opinion between me and @vetteguy53081 I assume he has experience with multiple kits and has done a study or has some reason. I have used the kit (AIP) for 20 years - with no obvious problems. The others - IMHO - were difficult - and no more accurate (in my hands) i.e. check alkalinity in Hanna 8.1. 20 minutes later 8.7. Same time API - somewhere between 8 and 9 - which was fine with me

 

[vetteguy53081]

Im not even going to go there AND NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION WITH THIS AS ITS BEEN too MANY TIMES.
I sold these at my store, have seen Many systems go down due to false readings with this very brand and Will not trust a $25 master kit to sustain over $3900 of current livestock.
I will never cut down a person for using what kit they want to use. . . . also realize I ALWAYS suggest if they're unsure to take a water sample to a trusted store and have them test with Non Api kit and compare results. I know a handful of persons who love their Api and as with salt, pumps, heaters, lights, etc - EVERYONE HAS A PREFERENCE.

 

[vetteguy53081]

For a difference of opinion perhaps with many years of experience @vetteguy53081 seams to have little faith or trust for api kits .
even though even when I started , api was easily accessible and affordable , you really didn’t hear of all these other test kits

why was api the leading test kit for many Years and all of a sudden not

Being in the hobby for 4 decades, they were one of the few and a leader in a limited industry.
As you may have seen or not, testing and lighting has evolved into a very expanded part of the industry and suddenly we have about 8 developers of test kits , digital testers, ICP and even one I just picked up at MACNA called Exact I-dip which verify my own readings against Hanna and Trident unit.

 

[MnFish1]

Im not even going to go there AND NOT UP FOR DISCUSSION WITH THIS AS ITS BEEN too MANY TIMES.
I sold these at my store, have seen Many systems go down due to false readings with this very brand and Will not trust a $25 master kit to sustain over $3900 of current livestock.
I will never cut down a person for using what kit they want to use. . . . also realize I ALWAYS suggest if they're unsure to take a water sample to a trusted store and have them test with Non Api kit and compare results. I know a handful of persons who love their Api and as with salt, pumps, heaters, lights, etc - EVERYONE HAS A PREFERENCE.

assuming you're responding to this:

This is an unfortunate difference of opinion between me and @vetteguy53081 I assume he has experience with multiple kits and has done a study or has some reason. I have used the kit (AIP) for 20 years - with no obvious problems.

That is my reality - The purpose of my post was to 'agree to disagree'. There is no statistical difference between an API kit and the others - IMHO - in other words 99/100 times - a tank problem is not related to a test kit used - that was used ACCORDING TO DIRECTIONS. I assumed you had some evidence/study/etc - But in the end you're right - its personal preference

 

[MnFish1]

Being in the hobby for 4 decades, they were one of the few and a leader in a limited industry.
As you may have seen or not, testing and lighting has evolved into a very expanded part of the industry and suddenly we have about 8 developers of test kits , digital testers, ICP and even one I just picked up at MACNA called Exact I-dip which verify my own readings against Hanna and Trident unit.

There are other tests - There is no evidence - that these tests (displayed in your picture) - is any better than API - except - as you said 'personal preference' which is all good - unless you can post them?

 

[vetteguy53081]

assuming you're responding to this:

That is my reality - The purpose of my post was to 'agree to disagree'. There is no statistical difference between an API kit and the others - IMHO - in other words 99/100 times - a tank problem is not related to a test kit used - that was used ACCORDING TO DIRECTIONS. I assumed you had some evidence/study/etc - But in the end you're right - its personal preference

As stated- not spending my night debating about test kits and perhaps search for the many Unhappy testers on R2R. Not getting dragged into a test debate

 

[nereefpat]

Are we still just talking about API's ammonia kit? They make several other useful test kits. The alkalinity and calcium kits are great, it's just a bonus that those 2 kits are cheap.

I would not buy API's "saltwater master test kit." It just contains kits for pH (many reefers don't test pH, as it will be what it will be), and ammonia-nitrite-nitrate. If they substituted calcium and alk in for ammonia & nitrite, it would be better.

 

[Rmckoy]

Are we still just talking about API's ammonia kit? They make several other useful test kits. The alkalinity and calcium kits are great, it's just a bonus that those 2 kits are cheap.

I would not buy API's "saltwater master test kit." It just contains kits for pH (many reefers don't test pH, as it will be what it will be), and ammonia-nitrite-nitrate. If they substituted calcium and alk in for ammonia & nitrite, it would be better.

For what the calcium and alkalinity kits do , it’s close enough for some .
but for example for Alk . It will only tell you it’s between 2 drops .
most want less than 1dkh fluctuation .

I use the nitrate kit often if I feel my other kit results are off .

 

[nereefpat]

For what the calcium and alkalinity kits do , it’s close enough for some .
but for example for Alk . It will only tell you it’s between 2 drops .
most want less than 1dkh fluctuation .

I use the nitrate kit often if I feel my other kit results are off .

For the alk test, if you double the volume, you can get 0.5 dKH increments instead of 1 dKH. Not as tight as Salifert's 0.3, but pretty good.

The Ca is +/- 20 ppm, so that's always plenty good enough for me.

 

[MnFish1]

Are we still just talking about API's ammonia kit? They make several other useful test kits. The alkalinity and calcium kits are great, it's just a bonus that those 2 kits are cheap.

I would not buy API's "saltwater master test kit." It just contains kits for pH (many reefers don't test pH, as it will be what it will be), and ammonia-nitrite-nitrate. If they substituted calcium and alk in for ammonia & nitrite, it would be better.

I use the Reef Master test kit - which tests Calcium, Phosphate, nitrate and alkalinity. https://apifishcare.com/product/reef-master-test-kit. I agree with you - I don't even test Ammonia or nitrite (except during the experiments that I was doing on those parameters). I never (using 3 different kits - and perhaps 100 tests over several weeks) - what I would have considered a 'false positive' - except when I realized that I made an error.

 

[MnFish1]

For the alk test, if you double the volume, you can get 0.5 dKH increments instead of 1 dKH. Not as tight as Salifert's 0.3, but pretty good.

The Ca is +/- 20 ppm, so that's always plenty good enough for me.

This is a little off topic - but the ammonia part has probably b been beat to death anyway. Nice Idea - Am I undetrstanding your point? The decrements on the chart are still let say 7-8 or 8-9. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Let's say you have an alkalinity that you know is '8.5' (by some gold standard reading). I would assume the API test kid should read somewhere between 8 and 9 When you added the 8th drop - the color would not be completely changed? If you diluted the water 50:50 with Rodi the Alkalinity would be 4.25 - so the color would start to change at 4 - but would still be between 4 and 5 drops. If you're saying you can differentiate between how close the color is when it starts to change - that thats a better estimate it may be correct.

 

[AydenLincoln]

Seems like quite a serious assertion, James Fatheree tested various kits and API stood up fairly well.

I just read that article very informative and I feel like a lesson here is don’t use expired test kits!

 

[nereefpat]

I use the Reef Master test kit - which tests Calcium, Phosphate, nitrate and alkalinity. https://apifishcare.com/product/reef-master-test-kit.

Nice. I must have forgotten about that kit.

Nice Idea - Am I undetrstanding your point? The decrements on the chart are still let say 7-8 or 8-9. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Let's say you have an alkalinity that you know is '8.5' (by some gold standard reading). I would assume the API test kid should read somewhere between 8 and 9 When you added the 8th drop - the color would not be completely changed? If you diluted the water 50:50 with Rodi the Alkalinity would be 4.25 - so the color would start to change at 4 - but would still be between 4 and 5 drops. If you're saying you can differentiate between how close the color is when it starts to change - that thats a better estimate it may be correct.

No. You would double the sample volume from 5 mLs to 10 mLs of tank water. Then each drop of titrant equals 0.5 dKH instead of 1 dKH.

In your example, if you know your tank is at 8.5:
You are right, the color change will complete at either the 8th or 9th drop using the standard 5 mL tank sample.
If you double the sample volume to 10 mLs of tank water, it would take twice as much titrant to get the same color change, so more like 17 drops. Each drop counts as 0.5, you count drops 0.5-1-1.5-2.0 and so on.

If you were to dilute with RO water, which has zero alkalinity, it should still take the 8-9 drops.

 

[MnFish1]

Nice. I must have forgotten about that kit.

No. You would double the sample volume from 5 mLs to 10 mLs of tank water. Then each drop of titrant equals 0.5 dKH instead of 1 dKH.

In your example, if you know your tank is at 8.5:
You are right, the color change will complete at either the 8th or 9th drop using the standard 5 mL tank sample.
If you double the sample volume to 10 mLs of tank water, it would take twice as much titrant to get the same color change, so more like 17 drops. Each drop counts as 0.5, you count drops 0.5-1-1.5-2.0 and so on.

If you were to dilute with RO water, which has zero alkalinity, it should still take the 8-9 drops.

Thanks - I will have to think a bit on this.

 

[MnFish1]

My point exactly... it shows ammonia when there shouldn't be.

They both show 0 ammonia.

 

[MnFish1]

i think you are taking what i said, out of context. the .25 reading is the reading that "I" always get, so its so imprecise for me. but, not only just me. if you search these boards, you will find post after post of a .25 reading. i also have the phosphate test kit. and can also confirm that for "me/i", it is even further off than a quality kit, but again, it doesnt get you an ability to confirm a huge spread of 0-0.25, which just doesnt work if you have corals at all. so, in essence, you may as well just ditch that phosphate kit unless youre simply trying to confirm a high phosphate level over.25

so, although its good for someone starting out, we cant discount the fact that they are innacurate often.

IMHO - it's because you are not following the instructions - either of the test - or the reading of the test. The 'huge spread' (your words) - are not 'huge'. In fact depending not the pH - the spread is basically between 0 and next to zero. Additionally - if you read the instructions on the API test (ammonia) - you're probably at 0 ammonia

 

[MnFish1]

we already have. within the last hour, ive already told the issue i ran into with nitrite showing wrong on one api kit or another api kit. phosphate can only read as low as 0 or .25, so those are useless unless you want to read high phosphate readings, which the only reason to test phosphate would be for reefing, and most people wouldnt want .25.

nitrate is probably ok to use, but thats the only one i would personally use, and maybe ph. everything else like calcium or alk, i would prefer at the very least, a titrate kit, which api doesnt have.

for fish only, and for beginners, its fine. but at least be honest with yourself to recognize that the readings can be verifiable as wrong, as i have already shown today. if you dont want to take my first hand test and experience, thats fine, but at least acknowledge that these test kits can have serious number fluctuation that wont match other kits.

Nitrite is a non-issue for reef tanks/saltwater tanks in general.

 

[MnFish1]

the issue that you run in to, and this is specific to the alk test, the drops come out so fast, even when you dont squeeze it, i barely managed to count the 5 drops at the angle i used. all other api bottles dont come out as fast, but the alk solution is insanely fast. so fast that you can lose count in the matter of a half second. i literally could have completed 15 drops in 2 seconds if i wasnt careful

Thats why you have to be careful?

 

[MnFish1]

the test instructions dont tell you to turn it upside down. it tells you to do a test vertically. so, unless your going to somehow hold that bottle upright toward the ceiling, and get those drops into a vial, a 90 degree angle where the leg that is going up, is vertical. the angle in which i held it in that vertical is 90 degrees so that the drop is going straight down, and not at a 45 degree angle. the actual facing of the opening isnt part of what the instructions mean to be vertical. thats just a weird flex to get me on a definition

IN fact thats exactly what they are saying - you hold the bottle vertically i.e. perpendicular to the ground - not at a 45 degree angle a 60 degree angle or any other angle - you hold the bottle such that the bottle is dripping directly downward. These directions, IMHO - are the reason for so many errors - because it's extremely difficult.